WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:03.859 Bev Harp: Introducing our our panelists and 2 00:00:03.950 --> 00:00:06.560 Bev Harp: a little bit about what we're doing here today. 3 00:00:06.610 --> 00:00:14.660 Bev Harp: and we'll hope that Shalice will join as we're getting started, and I'll go ahead and read. Read her 4 00:00:14.980 --> 00:00:16.370 Bev Harp: biolashed 5 00:00:16.510 --> 00:00:25.639 Bev Harp: but welcome to the Unicorn. Speak panel where we'll be discussing the experiences of black autistic women in the workplace. 6 00:00:26.965 --> 00:00:34.310 Bev Harp: Innovative supports for autistic workers is a training and consultation project for employers. 7 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.769 Bev Harp: You're at the University of Kentucky's Human Development Institute. 8 00:00:39.090 --> 00:00:45.540 Bev Harp: and we we work with employers to help them understand the experiences 9 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:49.620 Bev Harp: of autistic people at work, and how they can be better 10 00:00:49.660 --> 00:00:52.470 Bev Harp: at hiring, supervising. 11 00:00:52.540 --> 00:00:55.650 Bev Harp: and retaining these valuable workers. 12 00:00:56.460 --> 00:01:04.150 Bev Harp: Today we'll be hearing specifically from black women and non-binary people in the workplace who are autistic about the 13 00:01:04.430 --> 00:01:06.269 Bev Harp: experiences that they have. 14 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:21.479 Bev Harp: We will hear from Jazz Brown, who is one of our lend trainees here at the University of Kentucky. Jazz is an autistic disability rights activist, artist and writer. 15 00:01:21.610 --> 00:01:26.089 Bev Harp: Their work focuses on the intersection of disability, queerness, and race. 16 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:33.289 Bev Harp: And when they're not doing advocacy work they find solace in watching old movies at home with their husband and 2 cats. 17 00:01:34.370 --> 00:01:43.669 Bev Harp: Tony Cheeks is a licensed mental health therapist who helps neurodivergent women and non-binary individuals identify their issues. 18 00:01:45.160 --> 00:01:45.940 Bev Harp: Strengths. 19 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:49.620 Bev Harp: And manage challenges to improve their overall well-being. 20 00:01:50.745 --> 00:01:51.420 Bev Harp: And 21 00:01:51.730 --> 00:02:00.909 Bev Harp: I'm going to put the links where you can find all of these people, their social media or their businesses in the chat. As soon as I'm finished 22 00:02:01.470 --> 00:02:11.880 Bev Harp: talking about everybody like Styx, Alexis sticks. Brown is a Kentucky and a visual artist. She does some really cool stuff in different 23 00:02:11.890 --> 00:02:13.463 Bev Harp: different mediums. 24 00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:18.510 Bev Harp: and is best known for her sock monkeys. 25 00:02:20.310 --> 00:02:23.519 Bev Harp: We also have with us Chalice Hurd. 26 00:02:23.630 --> 00:02:36.239 Bev Harp: who is an online influencer teaching autistic people to travel the world self-advocate and build financial independence. And I will put Chalice's links into the chat box as well. 27 00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:45.970 Bev Harp: Our host today is Brittany Granville, who is a disability specialist and a graphic designer here at the University of Kentucky. 28 00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:54.009 Bev Harp: and I will let her tell anything else she would like to reveal about herself, and we'll get started with the questions. 29 00:02:54.670 --> 00:02:55.440 Brittany Granville: Oh, okay. 30 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:56.489 Bev Harp: Thank you, Brittany. 31 00:02:57.780 --> 00:02:58.550 Brittany Granville: Okay. 32 00:02:59.920 --> 00:03:02.930 Brittany Granville: Hi, as Bev said, I'm 33 00:03:03.570 --> 00:03:04.810 Brittany Granville: Brittany Granville. 34 00:03:05.500 --> 00:03:07.209 Brittany Granville: I'm from Lexington, 35 00:03:08.290 --> 00:03:15.040 Brittany Granville: and I mostly work as a graphic designer, and whatever else people need me to do it here at University of Kentucky. 36 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:17.802 Brittany Granville: Oh, hci 37 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:21.890 Brittany Granville: And 38 00:03:25.310 --> 00:03:28.710 Brittany Granville: This panel is really special to me, because it like 39 00:03:30.510 --> 00:03:33.169 Brittany Granville: covers my identities. 40 00:03:34.690 --> 00:03:37.039 Brittany Granville: And we get to discuss them and everything. 41 00:03:37.637 --> 00:03:40.700 Brittany Granville: And I chose the title Black Unicorns. 42 00:03:42.408 --> 00:03:44.840 Brittany Granville: For this title, because 43 00:03:46.380 --> 00:03:47.429 Brittany Granville: here she comes. 44 00:03:54.755 --> 00:03:55.540 Brittany Granville: Sorry. 45 00:03:55.540 --> 00:03:57.223 Jaz Brown they/them: I got mine, too, so. 46 00:03:57.870 --> 00:03:58.180 Alexis Brown: Okay. 47 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:00.033 Brittany Granville: Decided it was time to walk on the keyboard. 48 00:04:02.330 --> 00:04:06.109 Brittany Granville: but I chose the title Black Unicorns, because 49 00:04:06.450 --> 00:04:09.790 Brittany Granville: often at work and in social situations. 50 00:04:09.990 --> 00:04:12.315 Brittany Granville: I tend to feel like 51 00:04:13.730 --> 00:04:16.360 Brittany Granville: I'm like a 4 in one special, you know. 52 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:19.370 Brittany Granville: I'm 53 00:04:20.010 --> 00:04:22.795 Brittany Granville: queer black autistic and a woman. 54 00:04:23.490 --> 00:04:27.490 Brittany Granville: I'm like the ultimate diversity hire. 55 00:04:27.700 --> 00:04:31.490 Brittany Granville: or like a special unicorn, that they had to go out and track down 56 00:04:36.620 --> 00:04:39.909 Brittany Granville: and the black unicorn is in use in 57 00:04:41.260 --> 00:04:44.869 Brittany Granville: has been used by other black women to describe the same 58 00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:47.880 Brittany Granville: intersectionality that we that they feel 59 00:04:50.090 --> 00:04:50.770 Brittany Granville: app 60 00:04:51.280 --> 00:04:53.800 Brittany Granville: in society, such as Audre Lorde. 61 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.469 Brittany Granville: who famously wrote the poem The Black Unicorn. 62 00:04:58.220 --> 00:05:02.835 Brittany Granville: which I think I sent along with the link to everyone. 63 00:05:03.770 --> 00:05:07.300 Brittany Granville: and a collection of poems in a book called The Black Unicorn. 64 00:05:08.701 --> 00:05:12.129 Brittany Granville: So with that with my rambling. 65 00:05:12.280 --> 00:05:15.700 Brittany Granville: I'm gonna start the questions 66 00:05:16.780 --> 00:05:19.069 Brittany Granville: and question one is. 67 00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:23.549 Brittany Granville: question one for our panelists is 68 00:05:25.580 --> 00:05:29.680 Brittany Granville: just for our panelists, I know Bev introduced you. But 69 00:05:34.590 --> 00:05:36.650 Brittany Granville: But let's see. 70 00:05:39.210 --> 00:05:43.180 Brittany Granville: I just wanted to see if anyone wanted to say anything about themselves 71 00:05:43.820 --> 00:05:45.719 Brittany Granville: that they'd like to add. 72 00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:53.230 Brittany Granville: such as your name, age, pronouns, and what you do for a living. 73 00:05:54.180 --> 00:06:11.519 Alexis Brown: My name is Alexis Dix Brown. As Bev introduced. I am a visual artist. Kentucky, and a visual artist. I am an entry level employee at a warehouse. A large corporation. 74 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:14.239 Alexis Brown: my pronouns are she her 75 00:06:14.250 --> 00:06:22.944 Alexis Brown: and I'm gonna say that before. Okay, but where our work is really important because it brings income. And 76 00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:27.210 Alexis Brown: so I strategically chose like easy jobs 77 00:06:28.148 --> 00:06:36.110 Alexis Brown: so that I could focus on my art, which, if I'm doing an easy job, then all my energy will go to my art. So I spent I'm 40 years old. 78 00:06:36.140 --> 00:06:37.740 Alexis Brown: and I've spent 79 00:06:38.310 --> 00:06:43.984 Alexis Brown: probably every waking moment, trying to get away from anything that would keep me from my art. And 80 00:06:44.640 --> 00:06:49.279 Alexis Brown: it's been interesting to see that I'm constantly trying to escape something 81 00:06:49.746 --> 00:06:59.179 Alexis Brown: and trying to understand what that was was also very confusing. So at the age of 40, I've I realized I've probably been masking my entire life. 82 00:06:59.250 --> 00:07:11.650 Alexis Brown: And just right now, understanding what that means. And then the health issues it can cause. But I'm so grateful for social media that I have access to terminology that alleviates so much stress 83 00:07:11.730 --> 00:07:23.169 Alexis Brown: and the cultivation of spaces like this. Everything that led to this opportunity to be in the space with you all has been very peaceful, and 84 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:37.449 Alexis Brown: I'm hoping that this could exist in work culture as well. So I'm interested in exploring that and learning from all of you how you achieve what you do on a daily basis. So thank you for this opportunity. 85 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:59.189 Jaz Brown they/them: I'll go next. My name is Jazz Brown. I go by. They them pronouns I identify as non-binary. I'm also like autistic and have multiple disabilities, and I do think that some of them are because of the stress from masking for so long, especially my autoimmune disorder. 86 00:07:59.270 --> 00:08:20.970 Jaz Brown they/them: As far as like what I do for work. I am part of the Hci's Kentucky lend program. I call that my job. But it's technically supposed to be like a graduate school like class that gives you a stipend to do projects before then I was not working and have not been working for a year. I am one of the 87 00:08:21.320 --> 00:08:39.729 Jaz Brown they/them: large percent of autistic people where it's very, very difficult for me to hold down a 40 HA week job, and I tend to be overqualified for a lot of like 20 HA week jobs. So it's been very interesting being in the disability activists and like disability justice space 88 00:08:39.730 --> 00:09:01.830 Jaz Brown they/them: lately, because a lot of people actually take your expertise on, like all of the little skills that you have, instead of looking at a very robust resume. And then, if you deliver, then everybody's perfectly fine and happy. So I've been finding a lot of success in actually being around my people, whereas before not so much. 89 00:09:09.630 --> 00:09:11.413 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I I can go next. 90 00:09:12.170 --> 00:09:17.950 Toni Cheeks (she/her): As Bev said, my name is Tony Cheeks. I am a licensed mental health therapist 91 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:24.490 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I identify as a Audhd girl, Adhd and Autism. 92 00:09:24.830 --> 00:09:30.500 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And it shows up in a variety of ways. I did not. I'm a late discovered 93 00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:41.209 Toni Cheeks (she/her): individual because I am 45, and it really wasn't until my second child was born and was diagnosed with autism that I started to really 94 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:46.039 Toni Cheeks (she/her): delve into this and to see how I can help her, and it's just like, Wait. 95 00:09:46.130 --> 00:09:47.600 Toni Cheeks (she/her): that's me. 96 00:09:49.320 --> 00:10:11.305 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I'm just like sticks. I mask all my life I did not really really struggle. No, let me take that back. I've always struggled, but I could hide it really. Well, I would go ghost on people so like I would like in college. I would just be in my dorm room, like all weekend, and just like not answer the door, or whatever, just to kind of like re, 97 00:10:11.900 --> 00:10:18.003 Toni Cheeks (she/her): re-energized because it was just so. It's so tiring, and it's so hard, you know. 98 00:10:18.890 --> 00:10:37.448 Toni Cheeks (she/her): But when I had my son, my oldest, that's when I started to struggle even more. And it's just like what is wrong with me. Why, everybody seems to have this together like, why am I struggling so hard just to do what people would assume is basic stuff, right? 99 00:10:38.190 --> 00:10:51.629 Toni Cheeks (she/her): but it was a relief to me. Just like you said Sticks. It was a relief to me to kind of put a vocabulary to those things, and just like with you, jazz working 100 00:10:51.910 --> 00:10:54.870 Toni Cheeks (she/her): 9 to 5, 40 HA week. 101 00:10:54.940 --> 00:11:07.060 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I literally was in burnout, so much so that depression took over, and I was very suicidal. So I went. I left my 9 to 5, went back to school 102 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:13.340 Toni Cheeks (she/her): to become a therapist, so that I can have more control over my hours, and then really 103 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:17.360 Toni Cheeks (she/her): do the thing that I love, which is helping people without all the 104 00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:28.720 Toni Cheeks (she/her): bureaucracy. And you know, having to do what other people are telling you to do. So. I had just a little bit more freedom when I created my own practice, and then I desire to help. 105 00:11:28.890 --> 00:11:34.049 Toni Cheeks (she/her): just like I pour into my children to try to help them understand themselves, so they don't have to go through 106 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:36.780 Toni Cheeks (she/her): what I experienced for the 1st 40 years of my life. 107 00:11:37.700 --> 00:11:47.919 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I want. I strive to do that for others as well help them understand their brain, help them understand how to advocate for themselves, and just know how to really take care of themselves. 108 00:11:48.390 --> 00:11:49.250 Toni Cheeks (she/her): That's me. 109 00:11:49.820 --> 00:11:50.450 Brittany Granville: Great. 110 00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:54.869 Shalese Heard: And I am Chalice. 111 00:11:55.160 --> 00:11:58.570 Shalese Heard: I'm also going by, she and her. I'm a 112 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.540 Shalese Heard: I go by, she her and I'm 34 years old going on 35 the week before Christmas 113 00:12:04.170 --> 00:12:15.529 Shalese Heard: I identify as autistic, and throughout my life I have 2 master's degrees, and I've always struggled to keep a full time, job. 1st of all, it was hard enough securing the job, and even when I did secure it 114 00:12:15.890 --> 00:12:25.779 Shalese Heard: it wouldn't last very long. I've been a social worker. I've been a geologist before. So I've had that experience. But it's really interesting to me because 115 00:12:26.070 --> 00:12:40.969 Shalese Heard: I've tried to focus on jobs where I could, you know. Just get my income. That's easy, and doesn't take a lot of bandwidth for me, so that I can pour into my traveling and my special interests, you know, to travel and travel blog. And so it's like 116 00:12:41.030 --> 00:12:58.669 Shalese Heard: it reminds me of how Alexis was saying, how she's always running away from something, and in my case. I felt like I was always trying to, you know. Get away from things that would take away too much bent bandwidth for me while chasing something else. I'm always chasing something that's gonna be easy while I build this blog of mine. 117 00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:09.470 Shalese Heard: And, on the other hand, I've actually found more freedom in creating my own businesses like I would actually rent my cars out on Turo. I rented Airbnbs like doing self-employed gig work. 118 00:13:09.710 --> 00:13:12.900 Shalese Heard: even though it doesn't give me the certainty I want with income. 119 00:13:13.010 --> 00:13:27.089 Shalese Heard: I find more freedom in it, because, you know, I'm not bound by having to deal with office politics, which that was a lot of the thing that would keep me stuck in my previous jobs. I had a hard time because I couldn't understand a lot of the office politics and what was expected of me, and 120 00:13:27.510 --> 00:13:35.179 Shalese Heard: just the toxicity of dealing with coworkers took up so much of my mental space that I couldn't even focus a lot of the times, and then the burnout was really bad. 121 00:13:35.510 --> 00:13:36.650 Shalese Heard: and 122 00:13:36.680 --> 00:13:41.039 Shalese Heard: when I transitioned from full time work to try to find something, part time to 123 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:52.770 Shalese Heard: pursue my passions. I can relate to jazz in the sense that, being multi, being as educated as I am, I was very much overqualified for those positions that would allow that. Which is why 124 00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:55.329 Shalese Heard: I found freelance to be more freeing. 125 00:13:57.310 --> 00:13:58.050 Shalese Heard: Hmm! 126 00:13:59.070 --> 00:13:59.840 Brittany Granville: Okay. 127 00:14:00.260 --> 00:14:07.879 Brittany Granville: Well, my next question was about like, when you realize that you were autistic. But I think I'll be kind of covered the in the introduction. 128 00:14:07.880 --> 00:14:10.970 Shalese Heard: I was early diagnosed. I was diagnosed at the age of 2. 129 00:14:11.430 --> 00:14:11.980 Brittany Granville: Yeah. Alright. 130 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:12.605 Shalese Heard: Yeah. 131 00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:34.929 Alexis Brown: I'll say that I've never been diagnosed with anything's new to me. Actually, I'm I'm just grateful to be in this space for real because I joined the neurodivergent group. I love the word. 1st of all, I was like, oh, what's that? 132 00:14:35.400 --> 00:14:50.160 Alexis Brown: Because I'm not one to be joining groups now, and so from there I just felt this piece that, you know, and it was a nice pace of repetition of people just hanging out and being like. 133 00:14:50.630 --> 00:15:02.489 Alexis Brown: And that's okay. And it's like, How come we don't have more of that. And you know, I'm just filling myself with all these emotions with everybody talking about being triggered and autoimmune. And you know, the I think the worst part about 134 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:31.560 Alexis Brown: working with people is understanding that everybody's hurting and a lot of people are hurting to a degree that they shouldn't have to for simple reasons that we could all help. And when we talk about politics, that's where I get confused, because, you know, you can have politics all day. But you know, let's eat a meal, like, you know, watching people just live off the monster drinks, and it's actually hurts me to see it on top of the fact that I've got to stand for, you know, 40 HA week. 135 00:15:31.560 --> 00:15:37.709 Alexis Brown: So I just like that. We have this opportunity to talk about it because 136 00:15:37.910 --> 00:15:51.800 Alexis Brown: it's even new to me. And I'm grateful that people are talking about it, because I will say, leading up to this panel, I found a lot of calm just knowing that, hey? We can like share instead of just having to keep it 137 00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:53.090 Alexis Brown: to yourself. 138 00:15:53.810 --> 00:15:54.650 Brittany Granville: Okay. 139 00:15:55.150 --> 00:15:59.439 Brittany Granville: did anyone have anything else to add about realizing that you're autistic. 140 00:16:00.160 --> 00:16:20.109 Jaz Brown they/them: I mean, I will say that mine came after a period of burnout. I was working I was assistant manager at a gamestop, for like 2 years doing retail so constant, you know, person to person, interaction, and things of that nature. And then I could not work for 8 months 141 00:16:20.558 --> 00:16:35.079 Jaz Brown they/them: the burnout made it like went into a deep depression. And I I think that's how a lot of people who were late diagnosed. That's how we our body forces us to figure it out in a way, and I know that's how I was diagnosed. So. 142 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:36.635 Brittany Granville: Yeah. 143 00:16:38.116 --> 00:16:46.409 Brittany Granville: Alright. What about education? What was your highest level of of education? And what did you find difficult about school? 144 00:16:48.180 --> 00:16:52.314 Jaz Brown they/them: I'll go for this one. I have dropped out of college twice now. 145 00:16:53.240 --> 00:17:02.374 Jaz Brown they/them: twice. The 1st time I was going to be an English teacher. A second time I was gonna go in to do do the whole thing and be a therapist and 146 00:17:02.750 --> 00:17:16.301 Jaz Brown they/them: The 1st time I had a little bit of a period of burnout, and then I just didn't go to class again. 19. That's pretty, I think, stereotypical of some 19 year olds. And then this last time I 147 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:44.930 Jaz Brown they/them: even though I got diagnosed by a psychologist, my school Indiana University, southeast, I will shout them out because their office was not very nice, required certain specific pieces of paper that had a wait list of 2 years to get in order to give me accommodations, and so I just kind of decided, no, there's got to be a way that I can live my life without having to do this. 148 00:17:45.210 --> 00:18:02.580 Jaz Brown they/them: which has turned into me joining a lot of activist groups, like participating just kind of like organizing in the city. And a lot of that has been really nice for mutual aid reasons, because if I can provide some kind of service for you, you can kind of help me out with something with that. So I've been 149 00:18:02.800 --> 00:18:05.710 Jaz Brown they/them: very lucky to avoid school. 150 00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:09.349 Jaz Brown they/them: I will say that I've kind of had to, but it is what it is. 151 00:18:11.030 --> 00:18:17.149 Shalese Heard: And I would say, I got you know, my master's degree. That's the highest level of education that I got. 152 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:21.749 Shalese Heard: and the most difficult thing for me was just the burnout, because 153 00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:36.579 Shalese Heard: it became difficult to focus on my studies and to focus on maintaining the grade average, especially once you once you get the grad school. They're very strict about your Gpa. You having to have, you know, at least a 3.0 in order to graduate. 154 00:18:36.790 --> 00:19:00.040 Shalese Heard: which you know, throughout my grade school years, high school, elementary school, middle school, I always, you know, got straight A's. I was always the gifted student. But then, when I got to college, you know, I only I struggled to even like get past a 3.5, which undergrad, I managed to get like a 3.2, and then in grad school. That was really the 1st time I struggled to even get past the 3.0 mark. 155 00:19:00.100 --> 00:19:05.480 Shalese Heard: And I think when I look back on it, it was it had everything to do with burnout, because 156 00:19:05.600 --> 00:19:08.574 Shalese Heard: I notice a decline in my functioning 157 00:19:09.340 --> 00:19:18.989 Shalese Heard: I was not able to focus on being in school full time, while also remembering to eat, remembering to exercise, remembering to even do simple things like bathing 158 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:20.190 Shalese Heard: like 159 00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:30.989 Shalese Heard: tried to succeed in school and do what everyone else look makes look easy doing. The basics became. It came at the expense of the things of taking care of myself. And so 160 00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:36.869 Shalese Heard: the only thing I can chalk it up to is the fact, that being having to manage everything, is burnout 161 00:19:41.690 --> 00:19:44.199 Toni Cheeks (she/her): and for me, likes like. 162 00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:53.410 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I also my highest level is a master's degree and actually have 3, because before I became 163 00:19:53.490 --> 00:19:57.269 Toni Cheeks (she/her): a therapist. I was a teacher for 14 years, and 164 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.416 Toni Cheeks (she/her): for me school was the difficult thing about school. Was 165 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:05.811 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I laugh, too, because I went to Ius 166 00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:15.350 Toni Cheeks (she/her): structure. I thrive in structure, and some professors 167 00:20:15.490 --> 00:20:30.509 Toni Cheeks (she/her): just gotta do it their way. And it's like, but you. But you said at the beginning that it was going to be XY, and Z. And now you're changing it, and like that's not cool. And and I would have 168 00:20:30.610 --> 00:20:31.485 Toni Cheeks (she/her): these 169 00:20:33.110 --> 00:20:39.839 Toni Cheeks (she/her): times what I would have a discussion with the Professor in a way that you know I express my 170 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.464 Toni Cheeks (she/her): disagreement and how things have run, you know. So that was hard. 171 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:51.868 Toni Cheeks (she/her): actually balancing everything was was really hard, too. 172 00:20:53.220 --> 00:21:07.570 Toni Cheeks (she/her): like I was. I was identified as quote, unquote, gifted. I was in several programs growing up. That was supposed to like highlight, this giftedness, but still didn't understand me. So that was a struggle. 173 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:32.169 Toni Cheeks (she/her): But when I went to school undergrad disaster, Gpa, because it's like, what am I doing? How do I even focus? I can't finish reading a book. My Adhd is just off the chain, and at that time I didn't know what that was. I didn't know why I was struggling so much, but then, when I got into grad school and I was getting A's. It's like, Well, wait a minute. 174 00:21:32.530 --> 00:21:33.670 Toni Cheeks (she/her): This is 175 00:21:34.060 --> 00:21:35.739 Toni Cheeks (she/her): a little smart. 176 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:44.309 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Maybe I do have a little something. But it but it was difficult just trying to figure out how to do these things 177 00:21:44.330 --> 00:21:48.675 Toni Cheeks (she/her): in a way, because I struggle with executive functioning issues, 178 00:21:49.450 --> 00:21:53.749 Toni Cheeks (she/her): with organization, sometimes with, actually, you know. 179 00:21:53.760 --> 00:22:04.390 Toni Cheeks (she/her): impulsivity and things like that. So sensory issues will keep me out of a lot of places, too. So those things came into play when I was in school. 180 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:04.980 Brittany Granville: Hmm. 181 00:22:05.860 --> 00:22:06.525 Brittany Granville: Okay. 182 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.080 Brittany Granville: Oh. 183 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:13.800 Alexis Brown: No. 184 00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:16.079 Brittany Granville: College was. If I can. 185 00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:17.010 Alexis Brown: Oh, you're going. 186 00:22:17.010 --> 00:22:20.428 Brittany Granville: I'm sorry college was really difficult for me to like. 187 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:22.569 Brittany Granville: it was just socially 188 00:22:22.820 --> 00:22:29.439 Brittany Granville: like I felt like everyone was going out and socializing, and I was just kind of like by myself all the time, for like 4 years straight. 189 00:22:29.850 --> 00:22:35.960 Brittany Granville: But I loved the classes I was like, oh, boy, I get to do my special interest. All day long I get to draw and 190 00:22:36.996 --> 00:22:41.803 Brittany Granville: do art stuff and decorating before this is a dream. 191 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:42.740 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 192 00:22:45.290 --> 00:22:50.229 Brittany Granville: so I don't know. I did pretty well. Grades wise, but socially it was kind of like 193 00:22:51.620 --> 00:22:52.950 Brittany Granville: I don't know. 194 00:22:53.030 --> 00:23:01.399 Brittany Granville: It was hard meeting people as opposed to high school, where everyone's just stuck in the same classes all day all day long. So you're kind of just good 195 00:23:02.110 --> 00:23:03.620 Brittany Granville: acquainted with them 196 00:23:04.807 --> 00:23:06.770 Brittany Granville: whether you want to or not. 197 00:23:08.860 --> 00:23:11.300 Brittany Granville: Sorry. I was just adding my own thing. 198 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:12.460 Brittany Granville: Oh. 199 00:23:13.560 --> 00:23:14.100 Brittany Granville: asking questions. 200 00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:16.850 Alexis Brown: Like this. No, this is great. I love it. 201 00:23:16.850 --> 00:23:17.299 Brittany Granville: Oh, thanks! 202 00:23:18.060 --> 00:23:33.459 Alexis Brown: I was. Gonna say, I I love hearing all this. It's just I've I've always been looking for my tribe man, you know, and it gets so lonely, and it's like, I just been looking forward to this day. I was like just to hang out with y'all you know. 203 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.710 Alexis Brown: Huh, Michelle. 204 00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:36.000 Brittany Granville: Get lunch, lunch, or something. 205 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.940 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. 206 00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:45.040 Alexis Brown: I'm excited. So my highest level of education is 207 00:23:45.600 --> 00:24:03.130 Alexis Brown: I have a fine Arts degree. With an emphasis in drawing I went to I had the opportunity to attend Bellamine University on a basketball scholarship, and I'll say, and I really don't like sports. I don't like people touching me. I don't like running 208 00:24:04.286 --> 00:24:21.869 Alexis Brown: so definitely high masking. It was a great experience, but socializing has always been an issue. I just remember, you know I'll make a bad decision or something. A teacher. Come, talk to me. I'll just start crying. I would just cry and cry and cry, and I'm like. I don't even know why I'm crying right so mine I would like try to like 209 00:24:22.410 --> 00:24:49.580 Alexis Brown: myself up, and I would build blocks like I'm building blocks. I'm slapping it up, brick by brick. I'm not going to cry, and it's like these. Tears are just like what is. You know, the emotions are like out of control. You know, I'm learning how to self-regulate things like that. And at this age it's like, you know, I mean, thank **** I wanted kids. I wanted kids, but with burnout I would. I I 210 00:24:49.870 --> 00:24:50.590 Alexis Brown: I can't. 211 00:24:50.590 --> 00:24:51.320 Shalese Heard: I feel you. 212 00:24:51.320 --> 00:24:54.580 Alexis Brown: Nobody was concerned for my dog. I was concerned. 213 00:24:54.580 --> 00:24:55.550 Shalese Heard: Have kids. 214 00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.280 Jaz Brown they/them: Same. 215 00:24:57.216 --> 00:25:01.183 Alexis Brown: Is so chill it's like, listen, we don't do anything. 216 00:25:02.070 --> 00:25:21.969 Alexis Brown: And taking the spirit to work, I was excited because I'll pick an easy job, because I'm so stimulated by mundane things, especially like the repetition of it. And so I really want to be a dishwasher, you know. But I just can't talk, because once I start talking I'm gonna lose my juice. You gotta go. 217 00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:22.790 Jaz Brown they/them: No. 218 00:25:23.215 --> 00:25:25.764 Alexis Brown: Ask for a raise or something. 219 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:38.539 Jaz Brown they/them: No, you bring up something that's really interesting, though, because I often think about like man. If somebody could just pay me $30 an hour to just file things in alphabetical order. I would do that. 220 00:25:38.540 --> 00:25:39.109 Shalese Heard: Oh yes! 221 00:25:39.110 --> 00:25:41.610 Alexis Brown: And I'ma, I'ma tell y'all I get paid 222 00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:45.469 Alexis Brown: $20 an hour to put tape on a box. 223 00:25:46.130 --> 00:25:48.659 Jaz Brown they/them: That's not bad. That's not bad. 224 00:25:48.870 --> 00:25:53.670 Alexis Brown: Not at all. But- but I will say has been triggered. 225 00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:57.260 Alexis Brown: Device is a toxic work. Environment. 226 00:25:57.260 --> 00:25:57.990 Shalese Heard: Oh! 227 00:25:57.990 --> 00:25:59.639 Alexis Brown: Yeah, right? So we're. 228 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.410 Shalese Heard: It's always a clear proposal. 229 00:26:01.410 --> 00:26:21.879 Alexis Brown: Too, and it's like, Can we just talk about it like I'm so excited getting ready for this panel because it's like, I don't want to be angry like I'm so tired of like I don't. I've been trying to like pump myself up to like, you know, protect myself. And how do you respond to negativity? And it's like so aggravating trying to figure out how to outwit somebody before they get you, and then. 230 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:22.440 Shalese Heard: Yes. 231 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.169 Alexis Brown: Down to get you. It's like, Oh, my! 232 00:26:24.170 --> 00:26:25.139 Shalese Heard: *** is drinking. 233 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:26.860 Alexis Brown: Like 3 months like you. Still, man. 234 00:26:26.860 --> 00:26:29.469 Shalese Heard: Spend all your energy trying to figure that out. 235 00:26:29.830 --> 00:26:30.719 Brittany Granville: Whole other job. 236 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.070 Alexis Brown: I can't handle it like, can I? Just can I? And I? And the thing is like. 237 00:26:34.070 --> 00:26:34.590 Shalese Heard: So much. 238 00:26:34.590 --> 00:26:40.320 Alexis Brown: Have people who are who are qualified to do a job like I'm more than qualified to put tape on a box. 239 00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:41.460 Shalese Heard: So. 240 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:49.420 Alexis Brown: Well, so efficiently I do. And I get excited about those things. And and actually it becomes it comes a 241 00:26:50.060 --> 00:26:53.210 Alexis Brown: vulnerable spot where I become a prey 242 00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:57.580 Alexis Brown: to, because where I work at, everybody gets paid the same amount. 243 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:00.859 Alexis Brown: and but there's different work to do there. 244 00:27:01.310 --> 00:27:01.890 Alexis Brown: So now we're. 245 00:27:01.890 --> 00:27:02.420 Jaz Brown they/them: Intermediate. 246 00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:07.859 Alexis Brown: Labor. And the biggest reason I wanted to get to this conversation is talking about being, you know. 247 00:27:08.870 --> 00:27:26.469 Alexis Brown: dealing with disabilities and being vulnerable to manual labor in a system that reflects a racist society, not purposely and by the individual definitely, not you. But you're helping. 248 00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:27.519 Shalese Heard: Yeah, yeah, that's 249 00:27:27.860 --> 00:27:28.500 Shalese Heard: topic. Now. 250 00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:49.949 Alexis Brown: It's a mess, and we have to figure it out. But we're only given vocabulary to speak with an individual to an individual about an individual, and we're not able to have the opportunity to speak as a whole to the toxic work. Environment like, I learned the word culture. I learned to say toxic culture, and the word was out there. I don't know how I formulated it, but, thank **** I did, because 251 00:27:50.150 --> 00:27:52.520 Alexis Brown: Heaven forbid! I call somebody racist. 252 00:27:52.850 --> 00:27:53.460 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 253 00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:55.046 Shalese Heard: Yeah, yeah. 254 00:27:55.650 --> 00:27:56.400 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 255 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.649 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Well, then, one thing, we don't 256 00:27:59.550 --> 00:28:00.240 Toni Cheeks (she/her): them too. 257 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.830 Alexis Brown: I'm tired. 258 00:28:00.830 --> 00:28:01.630 Shalese Heard: Ableism. 259 00:28:01.630 --> 00:28:02.050 Brittany Granville: Oh, yeah. 260 00:28:02.050 --> 00:28:05.879 Toni Cheeks (she/her): That's that's a ism that we don't give a lot of focus on. 261 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.040 Shalese Heard: No, we don't, and it comes up. 262 00:28:08.040 --> 00:28:09.270 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And a lot. 263 00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:15.510 Jaz Brown they/them: I'm curious. I know, I know. Like we're asking questions of the panel. But I'm very curious. Do you guys disclose at work. 264 00:28:16.850 --> 00:28:17.480 Shalese Heard: I do? 265 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:18.589 Jaz Brown they/them: Disabled. Yeah. 266 00:28:18.590 --> 00:28:36.270 Shalese Heard: I've done it, and, to be honest with you, I regretted it a lot of the time, because it's a double edged sword, because, see, I would disclose thinking, and I was naive thinking, oh, if I tell them that I have a disability, they'll understand me. They'll be more willing to accommodate me, but then, a lot of times it will backfire, because the thing is like they. 267 00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:44.209 Shalese Heard: We'll sit up here and then they'll decide. Oh, you're not competent, and then they'll start doing little, like passive, aggressive things to me to try to get me to quit. 268 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:53.300 Shalese Heard: I've had that happen to me so many times. Actually I had it happen to me at my most recent job, where, the minute my supervisor found out that I'm autistic. 269 00:28:53.320 --> 00:29:05.049 Shalese Heard: she totally changed her tune with me and started trying to convince me why the role wasn't for me, and was trying to convince me I should quit. And then, you know, because I was protected by a union. I did not quit because I needed the income. 270 00:29:05.280 --> 00:29:11.769 Shalese Heard: and because I did not quit, she started spreading rumors about me and being vicious about it, and 271 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:19.050 Shalese Heard: you know there was no hard proof that it was because of my autism. However, it was very sus that. 272 00:29:19.050 --> 00:29:19.380 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 273 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:21.940 Shalese Heard: Happened the moment I disclosed, like all of this 274 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:25.759 Shalese Heard: happen the minute I disclose. Yeah, come on, now, I'm not stupid. 275 00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:26.320 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 276 00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:52.150 Alexis Brown: I'll say, with manual labor in the way that we're managed. It's kind of a social acceptance to move up as well. And so you want to show good character. And so I did some manual labor. I was supporting another person that was doing an easier job, and I picked up the slack and did the hard work, and I always look forward to the moment that I could do 277 00:29:52.150 --> 00:30:03.529 Alexis Brown: the job she was doing, because it wasn't so much manual labor, and when it came time for me to actually do that job they wanted me to do the whole thing, and I found out that I was doing her job because she was pregnant 278 00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:05.940 Alexis Brown: and and they can't disclose. 279 00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:12.589 Alexis Brown: And a lot of times we are supporting people who make decisions that don't involve 280 00:30:13.520 --> 00:30:18.539 Alexis Brown: us and are forced to support without knowledge. And that's 281 00:30:18.820 --> 00:30:39.510 Alexis Brown: problematic as well. There's a lot of I think there's a lot of room for growth. That's why I think gentle conversation is important. Because who wouldn't want to support a pregnant woman working in the warehouse? But when you don't get those same privileges. What then? Do you consistently go help all the pregnant people manually doing their labor for the same pay. 282 00:30:39.510 --> 00:30:40.120 Brittany Granville: Hmm. 283 00:30:42.090 --> 00:30:46.142 Brittany Granville: okay. You guys have touched on this a little bit already. But 284 00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:48.789 Brittany Granville: what's the most challenging part of your job? 285 00:30:51.710 --> 00:30:53.330 Shalese Heard: Well, I'll go first.st So 286 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.420 Shalese Heard: my previous jobs. 287 00:30:55.970 --> 00:31:01.950 Shalese Heard: I would say. Not only was it challenging, dealing with pressure. Dealing with, you know, meeting deadlines. 288 00:31:02.950 --> 00:31:12.190 Shalese Heard: I'd argue that it was even more challenging trying to be on the same page with the team or my supervisor, as far as communication goes because 289 00:31:12.930 --> 00:31:24.129 Shalese Heard: it was all these like social expectations that they expected me to have like kind of like what they call reading the room, reading social cues, reading between the lines. They had all these expectations of me that I just could not. 290 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:32.829 Shalese Heard: It drove me crazy, trying to, you know, be around what they were saying it. It just drove me crazy to the point where I actually ended up quitting the job. 291 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:39.349 Shalese Heard: And so it's always the social aspect of the job. That's very challenging to me, especially 292 00:31:39.370 --> 00:31:46.049 Shalese Heard: always having to look over my shoulder to see you know. How do I, you know, move around this person? How should I 293 00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:51.580 Shalese Heard: align in a way that's not going to get used against me like it's it's so draining to even think that way. 294 00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:54.180 Shalese Heard: And as a freelancer. 295 00:31:54.410 --> 00:32:05.739 Shalese Heard: because I do like structure, because that's the iron ironic thing about what I do. It doesn't have as much structure, even though I thrive on structure the downside to being a freelancer is that 296 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:12.950 Shalese Heard: the lack of structure having to keep myself on schedule and regulate it, and it can be uncertain as far as income which 297 00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:17.240 Shalese Heard: I like that predictability and that routine. So that is also a struggle. 298 00:32:22.641 --> 00:32:25.449 Jaz Brown they/them: I'll say the hardest part for me 299 00:32:25.520 --> 00:32:28.389 Jaz Brown they/them: is at some point. 300 00:32:28.530 --> 00:32:30.839 Jaz Brown they/them: I have done something 301 00:32:31.120 --> 00:32:37.990 Jaz Brown they/them: that has made people change their opinions about me around 6 to 9 months into a job. 302 00:32:38.090 --> 00:32:49.320 Jaz Brown they/them: Something I am. I do really good people love me. It's great, they say. Oh, jazz you, do! You did so much work. We love the work that you're doing. It's great. And then, like 303 00:32:49.320 --> 00:33:14.159 Jaz Brown they/them: something I'm not picking up like reading the room. Something in the vibe has shifted, and all the older white women in the office start looking at me funny. And then they start having conversations that I can kind of tell that are talking about me, but they're and they do it like 10 feet away. And I've got an auto processing disorder so I can't quite listen in, and then that just kind of builds anxiety. And then it's just 304 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:22.219 Jaz Brown they/them: kind of it leads to me being in a situation where I feel so uncomfortable, and I can't really go to anyone about it that I end up 305 00:33:22.350 --> 00:33:24.270 Jaz Brown they/them: just getting a different job. 306 00:33:24.380 --> 00:33:33.960 Jaz Brown they/them: So to me, that's kind of it's just something happens. And I don't know what I did, but I did something, and people don't feel the same way anymore. 307 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:44.750 Shalese Heard: That's you. Put that more eloquently than I did, but that's pretty much the gist of what I go through at work. It's like for some reason I can't pick up on it, but then the vibe shifts, they change their mind about me. 308 00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:47.209 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. And it's very cool. 309 00:33:47.210 --> 00:33:48.130 Jaz Brown they/them: Confusing, because there's so. 310 00:33:48.130 --> 00:33:48.480 Shalese Heard: Yes. 311 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.880 Jaz Brown they/them: A positive at the beginning. 312 00:33:52.070 --> 00:33:52.950 Shalese Heard: Yeah. 313 00:33:54.120 --> 00:33:57.860 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I think that's 1 of the unfortunate things about masking, too, because 314 00:33:58.110 --> 00:34:02.079 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I go into a situation and say, Oh, I have to put this 315 00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:11.539 Toni Cheeks (she/her): this present in this way, so that I am accepted right because everybody wants to accept, be accepted, and belong. 316 00:34:12.070 --> 00:34:31.799 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And then I don't want to be labeled as an angry black woman, because I don't have this smile on my face, and I'm not just like jovial. So I have to put. I feel like. I almost have to become a character caricature of myself, almost. And but but that's hard to maintain. And then that drops. And then it's like, Well, what's wrong with you? Are you? Okay? 317 00:34:31.909 --> 00:34:39.159 Toni Cheeks (she/her): What's the matter? And it's like nothing. But I didn't even realize, like you met the mask 318 00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:46.610 Toni Cheeks (she/her): you met my mask. You didn't really get to meet me, and I think that's why I struggle with maintaining friendships 319 00:34:47.210 --> 00:34:52.149 Toni Cheeks (she/her): a lot of the time, because it's like when when I get to be myself. 320 00:34:52.210 --> 00:35:20.070 Toni Cheeks (she/her): They're like, Oh, well, that's different. That's not what I was thinking it was going to be, you know. So those are some of the issues that I've had in my past positions just the work, environment, and being vulnerable. You're very vulnerable because I struggle at times. I don't even want to say it out loud sometimes, but I struggle with times with knowing who's for me and who's not for me. And then, when 321 00:35:21.510 --> 00:35:25.279 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Those people show their true colors. I get so hurt 322 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:38.670 Toni Cheeks (she/her): that those emotions are real sticks. Those emotions are so real. And then it's like I just pulled back. And and I don't want to show myself, but I left my my last position because of bullying 323 00:35:39.310 --> 00:35:59.439 Toni Cheeks (she/her): people taking advantage. No, she's different. Something's different about I don't know what it is, but she's different, and let me try to manipulate the situation to, so it can be in that other person's favor, and that hurts that hurts a lot. So yeah, those those were some of my biggest issues in the past. 324 00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:01.789 Brittany Granville: Has anyone else 325 00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:03.920 Brittany Granville: struggled with workplace bullying. 326 00:36:04.610 --> 00:36:06.829 Shalese Heard: Yes, absolutely. I have 327 00:36:07.170 --> 00:36:12.069 Shalese Heard: my very 1st job. When I was in college I was working at a summer camp as a camp counselor. 328 00:36:12.340 --> 00:36:18.410 Shalese Heard: I actually ended up leaving the job because I would get laughed at a lot about the way I would speak. And just you know. 329 00:36:18.990 --> 00:36:20.110 Shalese Heard: I 330 00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:24.039 Shalese Heard: was very vocal about my special interests, because at the time I was really into 331 00:36:24.210 --> 00:36:35.020 Shalese Heard: well, I still am into bears and geography and things like that, and I would be very vocal about those things in conversation, you know, at lunchtime, and thinking that I'm socializing like a normal person. 332 00:36:35.040 --> 00:36:42.510 Shalese Heard: But then I would get laughed at a lot and made fun of a lot. And I've had people on the job actually try to take advantage of me like they 333 00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:50.039 Shalese Heard: decided that. Oh, well, she's different, so I could just leave her my workload, and I can go hang out and socialize out there. And 334 00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:55.920 Shalese Heard: I had trouble saying no back then, like I had trouble standing up for myself, and people took advantage of that, and 335 00:36:56.070 --> 00:37:05.780 Shalese Heard: it was just very uncomfortable to stand up for myself and address it, because there were the fact that there was so much hostility made it uncomfortable for me to bring it to anyone's attention. 336 00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:12.899 Shalese Heard: and so I ended up having a meltdown at work, and then I ended up quitting after that because I couldn't deal with all of the 337 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.489 Shalese Heard: everything that happened piled on, and then I just lost it, and ended up quitting. 338 00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:18.550 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 339 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.859 Brittany Granville: anyone else. 340 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:27.666 Alexis Brown: I'll say, 341 00:37:28.220 --> 00:37:31.790 Alexis Brown: what's most challenging for me is watching 342 00:37:31.970 --> 00:37:39.670 Alexis Brown: culture change as so many people and new faces and cultures come into America to work and to live. 343 00:37:41.720 --> 00:37:50.569 Alexis Brown: watching those cultures has been beautiful. But working together. We haven't addressed any of the problems that America was built on. 344 00:37:50.830 --> 00:38:19.520 Alexis Brown: So working together in that facet is you know, as an artist, I'll say it's a great. I'm honored to be alive right now. Like to see everything we're seeing and to watch the birth of technology and the mixing of people. And I'm just hoping that these conversations create more safe spaces, that highly efficient and effective people can work in spaces that don't have to be hostile, you know. Why does efficiency have to be hostile? 345 00:38:19.900 --> 00:38:21.350 Alexis Brown: I don't know. I don't know. 346 00:38:21.870 --> 00:38:25.289 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Especially when you're good at what you do like, you know, for me. 347 00:38:25.290 --> 00:38:25.849 Alexis Brown: Yeah, sure. 348 00:38:25.850 --> 00:38:28.020 Toni Cheeks (she/her): We're even getting promotions. Sometimes. 349 00:38:28.020 --> 00:38:28.510 Alexis Brown: Yeah. 350 00:38:28.510 --> 00:38:30.330 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Lose weight like 351 00:38:30.450 --> 00:38:51.889 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I have, because I was a teacher. And it's like, I've literally moved these kids from like the bottom on their scores to top. I have data to prove like that. I'm good at this, but because I don't play that networking game, or that, you know. Who do you know, that knows somebody that can tell somebody 352 00:38:51.930 --> 00:39:09.250 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I don't know. I don't have the energy for that, and I don't know the rules for that, and that has always locked me out of getting those higher levels positions. And it's and it would hurt@firstst But now I'm like, but that's your loss, because I know I'm good at what I do. 353 00:39:09.560 --> 00:39:16.360 Alexis Brown: It's it's beautiful as above, so below, right? So we do get so low. But the comeback is so strong. 354 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:16.740 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 355 00:39:16.740 --> 00:39:42.610 Alexis Brown: And that's why, you know, it's like you know, I was excited to have an opportunity just to have a pity party, you know. But it's like no like this, is it? Just? It's ebbs and flows. It's like, Yeah, I'm going to complain a little bit. But you know, I'm also here to offer. You know, options of what we can do, like, how we can change and work that through. I mean, we're going to be here every day working together. Why not? Why not enjoy it? You know. 356 00:39:42.610 --> 00:39:43.400 Jaz Brown they/them: The thing is. 357 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:49.542 Alexis Brown: Things for people. I don't know why we all can't just get along. I, just, for the life of me, can't understand it. 358 00:39:50.490 --> 00:40:00.990 Jaz Brown they/them: Well, there's something interesting. I think, that you say in there that I think plays into part of the reason why, like, I will have problems like socially with people at work. Is that? I think a lot of us 359 00:40:00.990 --> 00:40:23.759 Jaz Brown they/them: we're looking at, like, you know, logically, like the metrics of what we do, how well we do them! And not only that, but we're evaluating, especially as black people. We evaluate the systems that we are a part of, and we can treat them endlessly. And what will often happen is that you'll bring up a better solution in the workplace of hey? This isn't logical. It be more efficient to do this? 360 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.049 Jaz Brown they/them: But everybody takes such personal events. 361 00:40:27.050 --> 00:40:30.349 Alexis Brown: Made everybody so mad. Now the whole warehouse. 362 00:40:31.350 --> 00:40:32.726 Toni Cheeks (she/her): This is right. There. 363 00:40:33.070 --> 00:40:34.040 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 364 00:40:34.570 --> 00:40:37.839 Alexis Brown: We don't want your love. We want your suffering. 365 00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:42.439 Alexis Brown: Next to my mind, is that movie monsters Incorporated, you know. 366 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:42.860 Jaz Brown they/them: They might. 367 00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:52.160 Alexis Brown: Out that the screams of the children like were put out far less light than their laughter. I was like, why would it take you so long. You enjoyed doing that. 368 00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:52.750 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 369 00:40:52.750 --> 00:40:53.979 Alexis Brown: At some point like. 370 00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:54.610 Shalese Heard: How are you? 371 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:03.229 Shalese Heard: Oh, man. 372 00:41:03.230 --> 00:41:04.390 Jaz Brown they/them: And see that movie again. 373 00:41:04.390 --> 00:41:05.323 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah, right. 374 00:41:05.790 --> 00:41:06.740 Jaz Brown they/them: It's been a while. 375 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.809 Brittany Granville: So like. What was the job 376 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.219 Brittany Granville: job search process like for y'all. 377 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:16.208 Brittany Granville: how are the interviews, 378 00:41:17.350 --> 00:41:21.560 Brittany Granville: What could employers do to improve the interview process? 379 00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:25.509 Shalese Heard: Well, one thing is for certain. 380 00:41:25.850 --> 00:41:29.160 Shalese Heard: I am sick and tired of those darn personality tests. 381 00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:30.329 Jaz Brown they/them: My **** Please. 382 00:41:30.710 --> 00:41:41.229 Shalese Heard: When it comes to those darn because that was my biggest hangup when I was in college looking for a part time job. That was the biggest hangup I would immediately get rejected, based on those. And 383 00:41:41.630 --> 00:41:55.230 Shalese Heard: I've actually come to find. And during my advocacy work I've come to find out that those darn tests are actually ableist, because, like, they rely on things that don't have anything to do with how well you do the job. But they rely on your ability, I guess, to do what they call boot making, or 384 00:41:55.250 --> 00:41:58.920 Shalese Heard: do what they call moving into the corporation's interests. 385 00:41:59.100 --> 00:42:15.169 Shalese Heard: which a lot of us don't mold very well into that. And yeah. So I started staying away from jobs that require that the applying the application process to seeing in my resume. I get birthed out very easily with that, and so I would have momentum. 386 00:42:15.340 --> 00:42:19.429 Shalese Heard: and then, after about a week or so, I have to take a break for weeks at a time. 387 00:42:19.590 --> 00:42:33.499 Shalese Heard: because the burnout would just be too great. And then, especially when you're getting rejected, no matter what it's like, you're sending your resumes. You're putting in all this energy and bandwidth into the void. That's what it feels like. And then, when you feel when you finally get an interview. 388 00:42:34.020 --> 00:42:45.109 Shalese Heard: You know, you're answering the questions literally, which I've learned that this was something that I struggled with. I actually learned this a while about myself, that a lot of interviews are very abstract. 389 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:52.989 Shalese Heard: and I have trouble with that. And then they ask questions that have nothing to do with the job like they're asking me if you could choose to be an animal, what would you be like? 390 00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:55.060 Shalese Heard: What? What? 391 00:42:55.636 --> 00:43:01.569 Shalese Heard: So? Questions like that, I think, always get me hung up when it comes to jobs. And so it's like. 392 00:43:01.660 --> 00:43:09.680 Shalese Heard: don't ask stuff like that. Ask what it is. Only ask what has to do with the job. Okay? Like. Don't be asking stuff that has nothing to do with anything. 393 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.600 Shalese Heard: because actually, I think that you're just trying to weed out people like myself when you ask stupid questions like that. 394 00:43:19.890 --> 00:43:22.239 Toni Cheeks (she/her): For me. It's the recommendations like 395 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:31.190 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I don't have. I don't know. Like, if I have not really gotten to know a lot of people who I work. Who am I right now to recommend anything. 396 00:43:31.627 --> 00:43:32.940 Shalese Heard: Yes, that one. 397 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:38.619 Shalese Heard: That's that's hard, because I don't really socialize with people at work for obvious reasons. So. 398 00:43:38.720 --> 00:43:43.074 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah, we keep it light. So what they recommended. 399 00:43:43.870 --> 00:43:44.700 Shalese Heard: Then it's hard to eat. 400 00:43:45.337 --> 00:43:46.612 Alexis Brown: Very dry. 401 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:59.589 Shalese Heard: And even the people who say that they're gonna recommend you. You don't know if you can trust them to actually send you a good recommendation. If they're actually gonna send something bad like you don't know if you can trust anyone 402 00:43:59.740 --> 00:44:07.889 Shalese Heard: just because they tell you, because I've experienced so much disappointment with people in the workplace saying something to my face, and then behind closed doors, is another story like. 403 00:44:07.890 --> 00:44:08.670 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 404 00:44:08.887 --> 00:44:11.280 Shalese Heard: Drives me crazy makes me want to pull out my hair. 405 00:44:14.020 --> 00:44:18.270 Jaz Brown they/them: For me. I would just love it if they could send interview questions ahead of time. 406 00:44:18.520 --> 00:44:41.599 Jaz Brown they/them: I know I know that a lot of holistic people like non autistic people kind of view that as like cheating. But I really don't think that interviews test improvisational skills as good as people think they do, and they're only testing them conversationally. They're not talking about like, if I'm in the middle of a work task and I need to improvise, can I do it like, you're not testing my skills. 407 00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:58.760 Jaz Brown they/them: You're just doing a vibe check. And I just think that that's not really good logically, for your company. So if you give the interview questions, you'll give autistic people time to prepare. You'll give literally accessibility, for anybody is good, and you will have better interviews. 408 00:44:58.980 --> 00:44:59.400 Shalese Heard: Yes. 409 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.890 Jaz Brown they/them: Regardless. So that would be my main piece of advice. 410 00:45:02.890 --> 00:45:03.450 Brittany Granville: Oh, yeah. 411 00:45:03.450 --> 00:45:07.710 Shalese Heard: No, they let us study in school. Why can't they let us prepare for a job interview? 412 00:45:07.770 --> 00:45:09.740 Shalese Heard: I mean, that's what we were taught right. 413 00:45:09.740 --> 00:45:10.779 Jaz Brown they/them: Yes, literally. 414 00:45:11.300 --> 00:45:27.189 Alexis Brown: We have that standard for jobs. I feel like we should have a standard for healthcare as well. I get so frustrated that I wait for 3 months to go see a specialist, and I sit there, and I want to know what's going on. And they asked me several questions that I don't have the answer to that. I had 3 months that I could have looked up 415 00:45:27.730 --> 00:45:33.039 Alexis Brown: and gave you, and then that's my meeting is over like. 416 00:45:34.359 --> 00:45:34.849 Shalese Heard: And. 417 00:45:34.850 --> 00:45:37.880 Jaz Brown they/them: Another 3 months to the next one. 418 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.019 Alexis Brown: Question. I got 12 more ailments. 419 00:45:40.210 --> 00:45:46.159 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Right paperwork to get. Let's get this paperwork ahead of time. Let's get this over with. 420 00:45:46.160 --> 00:45:47.340 Alexis Brown: Let me help you. 421 00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:47.680 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I mean. 422 00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:55.120 Brittany Granville: Okay. 423 00:45:56.860 --> 00:45:58.020 Brittany Granville: let's see. 424 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:03.290 Brittany Granville: Oh, do you think it's better to work around your special interest. 425 00:46:03.540 --> 00:46:05.120 Brittany Granville: or would you? 426 00:46:06.040 --> 00:46:08.040 Brittany Granville: Or would you rather 427 00:46:08.520 --> 00:46:10.100 Brittany Granville: let's see. Sorry. 428 00:46:11.420 --> 00:46:17.010 Brittany Granville: or would you rather do something completely unrelated to your special interests, and just keep it for yourself. 429 00:46:19.050 --> 00:46:24.290 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I think, working in my special interest, because I've always wanted to know why people do what they do 430 00:46:24.350 --> 00:46:34.400 Toni Cheeks (she/her): like. Undergrad. I was psychology, like all that that has always been my interest, like I studied body language like all of that that has always just been something I've done in my free time. 431 00:46:35.117 --> 00:46:39.000 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And it helps me with burnout. 432 00:46:39.250 --> 00:46:49.039 Toni Cheeks (she/her): because if it's something that I enjoy, then I can kind of keep the momentum going with it versus when it's something that I don't like, then it's like 433 00:46:49.050 --> 00:46:51.189 Toni Cheeks (she/her): it's already a battle 434 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.839 Toni Cheeks (she/her): for motivation, and to get things done so for me. 435 00:46:54.890 --> 00:47:06.160 Toni Cheeks (she/her): working in my special interests, or something that I that I just because I love being creative too, something that I enjoy just makes it easier to just keep going when you do come across those challenges. 436 00:47:08.090 --> 00:47:08.660 Brittany Granville: Hmm. 437 00:47:10.470 --> 00:47:34.659 Jaz Brown they/them: I work in mine, so I've always tried to work connected to mine. I've got to. I can't do it otherwise. If I'm not interested in something. I my ability to get it done is so it's so low, especially when it comes to things like things I got to do like get my driver's license renewed things like that like if I can't tie it like even like a reward 438 00:47:34.660 --> 00:47:41.180 Jaz Brown they/them: to my special interest to the task like I, it's very difficult for me not to do, but on the Flip side. 439 00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:51.260 Jaz Brown they/them: making my special interest. My work has made me hate some things that I used to really love and enjoy. So it's kind of a you know. It's it's 440 00:47:51.580 --> 00:47:59.270 Jaz Brown they/them: delicate, literally, it's a it's a very delicate balance. And I'm just now at 29, starting to kind of figure it out. 441 00:47:59.270 --> 00:48:01.579 Brittany Granville: Right. What is your special interest, Jess? 442 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:10.880 Jaz Brown they/them: I have too many, and that's also a problem. Is that they change every 3 months right now it's vampires and Ttrpgs and disability justice. 443 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:12.960 Jaz Brown they/them: So I'm trying. 444 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:13.853 Brittany Granville: Of course. 445 00:48:14.300 --> 00:48:17.899 Jaz Brown they/them: You know, writing, and I don't know. 446 00:48:18.050 --> 00:48:21.169 Jaz Brown they/them: I love them so much, though I could talk about them all day. 447 00:48:24.450 --> 00:48:25.670 Brittany Granville: Vampire, job. 448 00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:26.430 Brittany Granville: yeah. 449 00:48:26.430 --> 00:48:27.540 Shalese Heard: Have to. 450 00:48:27.630 --> 00:48:31.280 Shalese Heard: They at least have some work related to my special interests, because 451 00:48:31.530 --> 00:48:38.740 Shalese Heard: I just can't do anything I'm not interested in point by period. Because what happens is I end up losing interest, and then I'm not as motivated to do the work. 452 00:48:38.990 --> 00:48:44.940 Shalese Heard: and then it becomes all about money instead of doing a good job. So I have to have somewhat of a balance, because 453 00:48:46.450 --> 00:48:55.689 Shalese Heard: otherwise it just becomes boring and unmotivating. But, on the other hand, when I try to put too much pressure to make a lot of money on my special interest. 454 00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:58.369 Shalese Heard: Then it overwhelms me, and so 455 00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:07.080 Shalese Heard: I think it comes down to bringing back my expectations when it comes to money. So I have to decide for myself. Is it more? Is money more important? 456 00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:11.479 Shalese Heard: Or is my special interest more important? You know, like 457 00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:16.529 Shalese Heard: that's when I have to decide which is more important, because if I put too much pressure on 458 00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:21.789 Shalese Heard: my interest to make money, then it becomes overwhelming. And it's not as fun anymore. 459 00:49:23.240 --> 00:49:34.319 Toni Cheeks (she/her): So true. That is so true. And it goes back to, I work a lot in values. Right? So it's like, what what do I value in this in this moment, and that's why I was able to make these very hard choices because 460 00:49:34.580 --> 00:49:51.360 Toni Cheeks (she/her): people look at me like you left that good paying job. Yes, because that's not what I value. I need it to live. But I value freedom and kindness and and fun. And that's why I'm a play therapist, because I like to have fun. 461 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:51.820 Shalese Heard: Work, with. 462 00:49:51.820 --> 00:50:03.450 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And work with all these different types of toys and stuff. So so, yeah, that is huge to me is what what is important, what is, what is your value system? And how does it fit into what you do? 463 00:50:04.710 --> 00:50:32.709 Alexis Brown: I'm with jazz on that point where it kind of intertwines, and I've been fascinated by that. I am a sloth by nature, and my niece is. It's been passed down to her as well. And what happens is we just we're very sloth like, you know, and I'm like, how come, how come? Humans have to be a particular type of human. But animals can be whatever they are. 464 00:50:32.710 --> 00:50:57.209 Alexis Brown: I am eyeballing my hammock as we speak. I am going to get in it, and I'm going to turn off these lights, and I'm going to enjoy this replaying this conversation in my mind, you know. So as I watched, I've had the great opportunity of being able to really, truly live the American dream I have been chasing just one dream, and it's interesting how 465 00:50:57.210 --> 00:51:07.459 Alexis Brown: that changes, and it stays the same. And all I've been trying to do is finance that. So I'm always trying to figure out. Well, how can I spend less? And how can I 466 00:51:07.460 --> 00:51:34.850 Alexis Brown: make more? And what can I sacrifice? And then, you know, sometimes the universal kick my ***** And I had to pick up all my toys, and and luckily my parents, you know, they let me come home and cry it out and sleep it out, and you know I feel like Jenny off of Forrest Gump, you know. She just slept and slept, slept and I'm a big advocate for radical rest. I just am now seeing posts about it, but my friends used to call me back in the day and 467 00:51:34.850 --> 00:51:48.104 Alexis Brown: laugh and tell me they called out of work. I just wanted to let you know. I called out of work today. So that's so good, you know. And I have to be careful when I get around people, because it's like, Hey, could you stop doing anything? You know? 468 00:51:48.460 --> 00:51:51.170 Alexis Brown: And and I'm trying to see what the other side of that 469 00:51:51.260 --> 00:52:06.500 Alexis Brown: looks like? Definitely having more respect for the Amish community and their values. Tell me what you're talking about. I just love that I can see history in time. And why 470 00:52:07.450 --> 00:52:28.749 Alexis Brown: having things kind of stand still is okay. In some places. And that's what I'm exploring with. My art is memory and interactive activity. But it kind of lasts forever. And I'm learning now, especially in this group, that cultivating 471 00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:32.579 Alexis Brown: or in this way it 472 00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:49.390 Alexis Brown: it refills me. I always struggle to figure out, how do I refill? And I remember asking a very good friend of mine, how do I refill my cup, you know, and she really couldn't give me a good answer. You know it's something you have to figure out for yourself. But I found that 473 00:52:49.430 --> 00:52:50.620 Alexis Brown: comfort 474 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:59.356 Alexis Brown: refills me, and I never knew that I wasn't comfortable, and now I spend like a large majority of my time just relaxing my shoulders. 475 00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:23.759 Alexis Brown: That's all I do. All day I was like, relax, and then my whole body will drop. It was like, you know, and then I'll tell myself I'm healing myself, you know, and it's very painful the transition of becoming. And I think all these conversations are necessary and safe spaces are very important, so that people can go out into this world and deal with whatever we've created as humanity. But we don't have to die 476 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:35.879 Alexis Brown: slow death. That can't be proven because it's related to stress. I told my doctors, I said, listen, I don't take these pills when I'm at work, I mean when I'm at home. I only take these pills when I go to work. 477 00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:36.370 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah. 478 00:53:36.370 --> 00:53:59.286 Alexis Brown: You know, and the doctors want you to take. Get on all this medication. It's like, I'm not taking all this medication. I'll take what I think works, and I'll take it when I think I need it. And it's funny that I only need it when I'm going to work. But who wants to say that the 2 are related. So now you're telling me it's my responsibility to care for myself, and I don't know what that looks like, and I'm interested in, you know, 479 00:53:59.950 --> 00:54:05.769 Alexis Brown: trying to bring about that conversation so people can become advocates for themselves when there's nobody there for them. 480 00:54:07.950 --> 00:54:08.740 Brittany Granville: Okay. 481 00:54:08.950 --> 00:54:12.749 Brittany Granville: so how do you guys think that your autism affects your work? 482 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:13.929 Brittany Granville: Hey, fellow? 483 00:54:17.650 --> 00:54:26.390 Jaz Brown they/them: I'm more thorough, and I think a lot of other people I've worked with before. They tend to not really get into the details of things. 484 00:54:26.410 --> 00:54:45.049 Jaz Brown they/them: and the details of things tend to be like at the last minute. I think that that is something that I really value, like being autistic is that I can really look at something and see it and enjoy analyzing it from all parts. And I think that that really helps my work. 485 00:54:45.610 --> 00:54:49.999 Shalese Heard: Oh, yes, I'm myself. I'm a little. I'm actually quite analytical myself, like. 486 00:54:50.110 --> 00:54:56.470 Shalese Heard: And not only that that goes hand in hand with me being very focused. It's very difficult for me to multitask. 487 00:54:56.720 --> 00:55:03.129 Shalese Heard: So if I'm in the middle of a task or I'm in the middle of a project, and I get so in the zone 488 00:55:03.180 --> 00:55:12.389 Shalese Heard: that I hate when I have to multitask, actually get irritated. If I got a multitask because it's like I'm in that zone, and I don't want to get out of it until this is done. 489 00:55:12.690 --> 00:55:21.150 Shalese Heard: and I'm very methodical. I like to have an order in which I do things. And if someone comes and disrupts that order, yeah, that's that's not. That's a problem. 490 00:55:21.290 --> 00:55:32.340 Shalese Heard: And a lot of people seem to just be all over the place when they work, compared to me, like a lot of people seem like they could just kind of go with the flow, and just like spread themselves here, there, everywhere, and I just I can't do that. 491 00:55:34.020 --> 00:55:53.699 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I saw that a lot, especially in education like you weren't deemed as doing your job if you didn't stay until 7 o'clock at night, and you didn't get there until like 9 o'clock, and you know, and when the doors open, and because I'm so efficient, and I know what I need to do, and I just do it in that order. 492 00:55:53.700 --> 00:56:08.710 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I get stuff done. And then people are looking at me like, Oh, well, like, why are you able to leave before you know, when school lets out, when you supposed to leave, because I did my work instead of talking and doing. 493 00:56:08.710 --> 00:56:15.264 Shalese Heard: Was there? Was there a little are you sure there was a little bit of jealousy that you were able to get it done efficiently, and they weren't. 494 00:56:15.970 --> 00:56:17.449 Toni Cheeks (she/her): A lot of that. 495 00:56:17.820 --> 00:56:24.629 Jaz Brown they/them: No, and when you do do that, you know, like what always happens for me is when I finish early they go. Oh, that means you need more right? 496 00:56:24.630 --> 00:56:25.570 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Lights. 497 00:56:25.970 --> 00:56:26.700 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yes. 498 00:56:26.700 --> 00:56:27.200 Shalese Heard: Yes. 499 00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:29.626 Alexis Brown: Please. Yes. Can we please discuss this especially. 500 00:56:29.930 --> 00:56:30.880 Shalese Heard: Like when I worked there. 501 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.649 Alexis Brown: Thing is, and and I will go to work, and I think to myself for sake. You know we could plant gardens, you know, and 502 00:56:37.030 --> 00:56:43.380 Alexis Brown: if we could get out of work, but if they would just tell us how many widgets they needed, I guarantee we'd all get it done. 503 00:56:43.890 --> 00:56:55.880 Shalese Heard: And the thing about like one of the jobs I had I worked in retail. And the thing is, you always had to be doing something finished your task early. You always had to be doing something, and I think that was, I think they would deliberately. 504 00:56:56.300 --> 00:56:56.670 Alexis Brown: Yes. 505 00:56:56.670 --> 00:57:02.746 Shalese Heard: Maybe multitask and spread yourself then, because they didn't want you being able to be efficient and then have time for yourself. That message. 506 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.359 Alexis Brown: Because then you will go home and plant a garden. 507 00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:05.690 Shalese Heard: Right. 508 00:57:05.690 --> 00:57:07.519 Toni Cheeks (she/her): That's that's that whole host of culture. 509 00:57:07.520 --> 00:57:08.680 Alexis Brown: Oh, catch! It's. 510 00:57:08.680 --> 00:57:09.950 Shalese Heard: And I also think 511 00:57:10.010 --> 00:57:18.000 Shalese Heard: when you think about the way that they pay you like, they promote hustle Co culture on purpose so that you can't escape it like they pay you this way to keep you 512 00:57:18.080 --> 00:57:21.929 Shalese Heard: coming back to them, because if you could escape it, they would be out of business. 513 00:57:21.930 --> 00:57:22.880 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yes, ma'am. 514 00:57:28.810 --> 00:57:31.800 Brittany Granville: Oh, what's the best way of working for you. 515 00:57:32.830 --> 00:57:34.159 Brittany Granville: or what's the 516 00:57:34.630 --> 00:57:35.410 Brittany Granville: yeah? 517 00:57:35.830 --> 00:57:37.699 Brittany Granville: What's the best way for you to work. 518 00:57:39.450 --> 00:57:45.300 Shalese Heard: I like to know? Ahead of time, what I'm what's expected of me, what needs to be done. 519 00:57:45.580 --> 00:57:56.129 Shalese Heard: and I also like to be able to to plan my day ahead of time so that I can get a be efficient. I can actually knock one task out at first, st and then I can knock the next task out. 520 00:57:56.530 --> 00:57:59.559 Shalese Heard: I want to order in which things need to be done so that I can 521 00:57:59.770 --> 00:58:01.400 Shalese Heard: be more efficient that way. 522 00:58:02.790 --> 00:58:03.340 Shalese Heard: Yeah. 523 00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:16.900 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And that helps me to balance right? I strive for balance. So I don't want my whole life to be this career. You know there's other things that I want to pursue, like I said, I like to be creative. I just do 524 00:58:17.250 --> 00:58:26.810 Toni Cheeks (she/her): make cards, or, you know, draw, paint anything. I just want to have time for that. So when you tell me, XY, and z needs to be done. 525 00:58:26.900 --> 00:58:29.199 Toni Cheeks (she/her): and I do. XY, and z. 526 00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:29.660 Alexis Brown: I'm glad. 527 00:58:29.660 --> 00:58:35.350 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Like I should be done like, give me all of those expectations 528 00:58:35.470 --> 00:58:36.959 Toni Cheeks (she/her): at the same time. 529 00:58:37.110 --> 00:58:39.979 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yeah, so I can do it. Yeah. 530 00:58:39.980 --> 00:58:41.090 Alexis Brown: No end. 531 00:58:41.130 --> 00:58:56.809 Alexis Brown: you know, and it's it's it's frustrating because it's like, I. I want to move when my feet want to move. I remember at 1 point I was I have rented out an office space in the Stars Building, and I was practicing how to live in my office 532 00:58:56.810 --> 00:59:20.970 Alexis Brown: back. Then everybody was hyping up how you needed to be homeless to be famous, and that's all. They were pumping out. Mainstream was fame, and it's like I don't need to be famous. I just want to be comfortable, you know, and everybody. So I intentionally made myself the houseless for a while. But what I learned during living in my office space was that there were things that I definitely needed, and it was plumbing. And that's that's where they got me. I was like. I couldn't 533 00:59:20.970 --> 00:59:32.070 Alexis Brown: figure out the plumbing because I need my own bathroom, you know, and so I've been exploring that as well. I think for me. I'd like to wake up and and listen, and and and go where 534 00:59:32.560 --> 00:59:33.830 Alexis Brown: I'm led. 535 00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:44.410 Alexis Brown: and that's when I feel refilled at all times when I take a break when I want to, when I create, when I want to. And I create these memories that I hope come back to me when I'm old. 536 00:59:44.490 --> 00:59:55.859 Alexis Brown: you know, thinking about? What do I want my old age to look like? And that's all I that's why I pick these mundane jobs just so I can dream about old age. I've been dreaming about being old since I was like probably middle school. 537 00:59:56.200 --> 00:59:57.673 Alexis Brown: because, being 538 00:59:58.600 --> 01:00:09.190 Alexis Brown: what is it called? We self where you don't like yourself very much like you're insecure. All the teenage insecurities that you couldn't control in your brain like. 539 01:00:09.190 --> 01:00:10.150 Shalese Heard: Right. 540 01:00:10.530 --> 01:00:11.080 Jaz Brown they/them: Hmm. 541 01:00:11.080 --> 01:00:22.672 Alexis Brown: I just couldn't wait to just get to a point where everything was okay. And then I realized, there is no point where everything's okay. And I was like, you know, Will Smith. You lied to me, Bro, like. 542 01:00:24.070 --> 01:00:40.649 Alexis Brown: And they never ate on those TV shows. You know, we're watching TV all the time, you know, it's just. It's just such a great opportunity to learn relearn things. I don't know how that ties into the workspace, but I know that the energy emitting from these spaces keeps us from from cultivating these communities. 543 01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:55.929 Jaz Brown they/them: I will say for me. I I get a little testy with managers sometimes, because I don't think that they believe me when I say this, but I need clear, concise directions with deliverable goals. 544 01:00:56.150 --> 01:01:06.739 Jaz Brown they/them: What you would like to have happened. What would be best case? Scenario? What would be worst case scenario, and then, when the task is finished, I need direct 545 01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:36.709 Jaz Brown they/them: feedback. I need clear, concise. What could I do better? What did I do? Good? And what would you like next time? Because a lot of that stuff is so nebulous and implied that, like I can't, I won't. I want to get better. I like working. I want to do a good job, but if you can't tell me that you want like you were saying X amount of widgets at the end of the day, and if that's get done, then if you could sweep or do blah blah, and then, if that's done, then you're good to go. 546 01:01:36.710 --> 01:01:56.440 Jaz Brown they/them: Then that would be perfect. That would alleviate so much stress that I can methodically go down that list and get all my stuff done and on time. But a lot of places aren't very. I think a lot of bosses sometimes maybe don't know exactly what they want, and are very quick to delegate tasks without really understanding what's required. 547 01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:57.190 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Yes. 548 01:01:57.450 --> 01:01:58.460 Toni Cheeks (she/her): agreed. 549 01:01:58.460 --> 01:01:59.170 Brittany Granville: Oh, yeah. 550 01:02:02.150 --> 01:02:04.500 Brittany Granville: Oh, last question. 551 01:02:04.780 --> 01:02:09.810 Brittany Granville: how do you feel about your race? Gender identity and autism? Slash neurodiversity 552 01:02:10.110 --> 01:02:13.599 Brittany Granville: overlap in the worksplate in the workplace. And 553 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:15.800 Brittany Granville: is there any separation 554 01:02:15.870 --> 01:02:18.289 Brittany Granville: between those identities for you. 555 01:02:23.630 --> 01:02:27.980 Alexis Brown: Chalice. Was it you earlier that said you had hit the trifecta of 556 01:02:29.230 --> 01:02:30.400 Alexis Brown: labels. 557 01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:31.050 Shalese Heard: Yes. 558 01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:44.309 Alexis Brown: I realized that at a young age I was very low on the totem pole, being a being an athlete, put me up but once those years were over I realized that I've just. 559 01:02:44.550 --> 01:02:49.219 Alexis Brown: It's not that people don't necessarily like you. It's just that. 560 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:52.510 Alexis Brown: Only the strong will survive. 561 01:02:52.650 --> 01:02:59.050 Alexis Brown: you know, and I'm just not that type of strong to be conniving and hurtful and manipulative. 562 01:02:59.050 --> 01:02:59.570 Shalese Heard: Right. 563 01:02:59.570 --> 01:03:20.750 Alexis Brown: So you're starting to see the meek, really taking that blunt force of individuals who care less than we do. And that's their right, you know, leading up to this discussion, I just really wanted to be honest and say it's everybody's right to be who they are, even if I'm working with my direct opposite personality. 564 01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:26.719 Alexis Brown: If you have your job description and I have mine, there's no reason I can't coexist with you 565 01:03:26.820 --> 01:03:44.520 Alexis Brown: those opportunities to make people feel inferior and have them fill in gaps where managers aren't looking, because they are quick to delegate, really leaves room for a lot of abuse, mentally, emotionally, and and 566 01:03:44.520 --> 01:04:03.970 Alexis Brown: physically, in places that manual labor is involved. I think these conversations are important, because I witnessed things that I would go as far to say to me look like elderly abuse, because if you really look at the mentality of a black man, age 68, 567 01:04:04.070 --> 01:04:11.090 Alexis Brown: working in a warehouse, he is hardwired to work until he dies. 568 01:04:12.470 --> 01:04:32.079 Alexis Brown: I've seen these types of mentalities at work, and I see a younger generation of management stand by and watch these elderly people limp to their station and hold down their fort the best they can, and it is tragic. It is also their choice. 569 01:04:32.420 --> 01:04:51.879 Alexis Brown: But when they do try to speak out. So many things are on the line. And then for younger people that are raising children, you know, it's just easier to take it on the chin, and you have health insurance. So worse comes to worse. You'll get short term disability, and you'll get back together, and you'll find another job, or we 570 01:04:51.880 --> 01:05:02.790 Alexis Brown: done our part, but we're glad we could help you, and thank you for your service. Kind of thing, which I will say I'm grateful for that as well. But why are we putting ourselves? I've never been sick before. 571 01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:09.380 Alexis Brown: I've never been sick before, you know, so getting to this age of high masking and being so sick. 572 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:13.039 Alexis Brown: it's concerning it really is. 573 01:05:13.580 --> 01:05:15.240 Shalese Heard: Yes, it truly is. 574 01:05:16.080 --> 01:05:27.849 Shalese Heard: and you know I often grapple with, you know, not knowing whether or not I'm being treated a certain way because of my perceived disability or the disability people can pick up on the fact that I'm autistic? 575 01:05:28.040 --> 01:05:31.919 Shalese Heard: Or am I treated this way because I'm black a lot of times. I think it's 576 01:05:32.270 --> 01:05:37.210 Shalese Heard: both, and I would even argue there's a 3rd part of it being a woman in. 577 01:05:37.650 --> 01:05:49.819 Shalese Heard: you know, if you're in a male dominated industry, which I was at 1 point all 3 of those come into play, because, you know, women are stereotyped in society as being meeker, being more timid, and. 578 01:05:49.930 --> 01:05:53.450 Shalese Heard: you know, combine that with me, being autistic and being naturally 579 01:05:53.600 --> 01:05:55.450 Shalese Heard: less likely to 580 01:05:55.570 --> 01:06:01.590 Shalese Heard: be conniving and be a backstabber like I'm not trying to sound like I'm morally superior, but 581 01:06:01.990 --> 01:06:07.639 Shalese Heard: I just believe in really being forthright and honest. And that's not how people get down in the workplace, and 582 01:06:07.680 --> 01:06:13.979 Shalese Heard: things like that tend to get me make me more of a target at work on top of the fact that I'm a black woman. 583 01:06:14.500 --> 01:06:19.609 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah, speaking on that. One of the things I often try to tell people 584 01:06:20.020 --> 01:06:29.270 Jaz Brown they/them: and, like, you know, kind of refer back to is like one of the main, like tenets and pillars of white supremacy. Is this belief of the right to comfort. 585 01:06:29.590 --> 01:06:52.320 Jaz Brown they/them: and a lot of people, especially white people are more concerned about how a message is delivered, and if it makes them feel comfortable than the actual message, and how it can make them feel uncomfortable, and they're not really willing to explore why, something makes them feel uncomfortable. They just kind of want to assign blame to the person who did it. And 586 01:06:52.650 --> 01:07:01.479 Jaz Brown they/them: you know, I think, that you know, the differences between like the cultures is often that, like in black culture, it's much more important to be real 587 01:07:01.930 --> 01:07:10.150 Jaz Brown they/them: than it is to to be nice. Nice, you know. Nicey nice. It's just, you know. We'd rather be real, and I think that 588 01:07:10.210 --> 01:07:14.200 Jaz Brown they/them: when, like, we tie it to like the workplace and like how we get treated and stuff. 589 01:07:14.470 --> 01:07:36.519 Jaz Brown they/them: I really think that, you know, it's 1 of those things. I often think that capitalism is one of the most illogical systems that exists, because, logically, being real in the office would lead to making more money like if we were all just real like, you know. It would do that. But it's not. And oftentimes what I've experienced when it comes to like 590 01:07:36.660 --> 01:07:41.340 Jaz Brown they/them: gender, because it's very difficult to get anyone to use my pronouns in the State of Kentucky. 591 01:07:41.550 --> 01:07:54.419 Jaz Brown they/them: But when it comes to like, you know, autism and disability and stuff is just. People only really want to feel good at work, and I have a lack of ability to make people feel good and get my needs met. 592 01:07:54.850 --> 01:07:56.520 Shalese Heard: Right, right. 593 01:07:56.690 --> 01:07:57.390 Shalese Heard: yeah. 594 01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:04.550 Toni Cheeks (she/her): That's so true. And then, when they have the perception like I think Shaleeshi said something about it before. 595 01:08:05.108 --> 01:08:09.529 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Just because you're autistic doesn't mean that you have an intellectual disability. 596 01:08:10.050 --> 01:08:13.189 Toni Cheeks (she/her): A lot of people just have assumptions about 597 01:08:13.350 --> 01:08:23.689 Toni Cheeks (she/her): you as a woman or you as a black person, or you as an autistic person. And then it comes in all that comes into play like you, said Jazz. You know, when they're 598 01:08:23.729 --> 01:08:32.620 Toni Cheeks (she/her): not comfortable because of sometimes it's because of those perceptions like they already have this idea in their mind, like how it should be. And then 599 01:08:32.649 --> 01:08:35.929 Toni Cheeks (she/her): oh, I think she had a tone like. 600 01:08:37.660 --> 01:08:41.929 Jaz Brown they/them: I can't control my tone like that. That's it's part of autism. 601 01:08:41.939 --> 01:09:09.889 Alexis Brown: Tell you how many times I've been told, because they did try to work with me. If I was a little more like, because I'm very male presenting, and and I'm as an athlete. I'm domineering. I have a strong personality, but my heart is ginormous, but you know I do enjoy the work I do. But masking is exhausting. So usually I go on autopilot in my body, and I'm present, and I'm doing my job. And so, but my facial expression is very flat. 602 01:09:09.929 --> 01:09:26.449 Alexis Brown: and I'm comfortable, and it people found it offensive. But I see that the men get to walk around with a facial expression that looks just like that. And what was happening was because I work with so many people. And again, people really enjoyed me when I was up. And so. 603 01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:33.729 Alexis Brown: you know, they expected that. And so when I would go eat by myself, or try to recharge, you know they'd see this face in so many 604 01:09:34.779 --> 01:10:02.699 Alexis Brown: Caucasian people would. Aren't you smiling? What's wrong? And it would be so many. And I had to answer everybody. I'm okay. No, it's just my face. I even made up a joke. I say, it's the face my mom gave me like hoping like. Oh, I said, like no, they still ask me. And one guy. Just let them have it, I said. Stop commenting on my face. Why are you talking about my face? And then they think I'm crazy, and it's like, no, when you hear this all day long, and I don't even know you people. 605 01:10:02.789 --> 01:10:22.019 Alexis Brown: You don't even know me, and you're talking about the way my face looks, and and this is what was getting me in the way of my, and I remember one time, right before I really like fell apart, I went to the manager's desk, and I know they see me coming in like, Oh, Lord! Here she come, and I like I go up there, and I'm like, I'm like Wednesday, you know. I'm like. 606 01:10:22.818 --> 01:10:30.141 Alexis Brown: you know, it's like 7 o'clock in the morning. I'm trying to force a smile, and they're looking at me like, Oh, stop! 607 01:10:30.460 --> 01:10:34.249 Shalese Heard: Yeah, it's like, I know what you mean about the tone part, because 608 01:10:34.470 --> 01:10:42.480 Shalese Heard: for me, I tend to shut down, and what I mean by, that is, when things get too overwhelming, or when people are coming towards me aggressively. 609 01:10:42.810 --> 01:10:45.800 Shalese Heard: then I like to either walk away, or I just like. 610 01:10:45.860 --> 01:10:51.860 Shalese Heard: you know, separate myself mentally to the point where I'm just still, and I don't do anything, and I just like to be alone. 611 01:10:51.980 --> 01:10:57.349 Shalese Heard: and they take that as a sign of aggression. My silence is aggressive, which I don't understand. 612 01:10:57.580 --> 01:10:58.410 Shalese Heard: It's. 613 01:10:58.700 --> 01:11:09.009 Jaz Brown they/them: No, they feel entitled to it like not not only do they feel entitled to your voice, but your energy, and that you also need to make them feel good. 614 01:11:09.010 --> 01:11:14.240 Shalese Heard: And then I also think to myself, because, you know, I do struggle with an as an autistic person 615 01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:28.799 Shalese Heard: with meltdowns when I'm being bombarded like that. And so I do that a lot of times to keep myself from having a meltdown. And it's almost like, Oh, sorry are you doing this to me so that I can go off on you so that I can have a melt. Are you trying to induce me to have a melt. 616 01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:29.320 Alexis Brown: Because. 617 01:11:29.320 --> 01:11:29.740 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 618 01:11:29.740 --> 01:11:35.680 Alexis Brown: Trauma. They need a show. They need some dopamine. And and it's not enough in their phone. They need it from a human. 619 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:36.980 Shalese Heard: So you. 620 01:11:36.980 --> 01:11:45.679 Alexis Brown: Hardwired that way just to poke and poke. And what do I look like? A 40 year old telling me that this grown woman is harassing me. 621 01:11:45.860 --> 01:12:00.869 Alexis Brown: What do I look like? So when I do have a meltdown, I look like a child, and when I try to defend myself and say, Well, hey, I haven't said anything for 6 months, and they say, Well, why not? And I say, because I think it's kind of petty to say this person won't leave me alone. I mean, what? What does that even mean? 622 01:12:01.670 --> 01:12:09.610 Alexis Brown: Me alone like? What did they do to you? Nothing. She just keeps talking, and she knows very much that I would like for her to get away from me. 623 01:12:09.610 --> 01:12:10.130 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Great. 624 01:12:10.130 --> 01:12:10.570 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah. 625 01:12:10.570 --> 01:12:19.939 Alexis Brown: You're not even in my department. Why are you standing so close to me? And then and then that type of intense in my brain. It goes home, and I can't sleep. 626 01:12:19.940 --> 01:12:22.149 Jaz Brown they/them: No, and and part of the reason why there. 627 01:12:22.150 --> 01:12:34.929 Alexis Brown: With Hr. After work. And I'm like, guys, this is not healthy. I went to one of my managers and I said, Listen, I'm losing money. I'm I'm using my sick time to take time away from the job because of y'all, I'm not even sick. 628 01:12:35.020 --> 01:12:43.819 Alexis Brown: I just can't even be in here with y'all, and then watching the number of black people deplete and deplete over years. And I'm like we are. 629 01:12:43.820 --> 01:12:44.840 Jaz Brown they/them: Are dangerous. 630 01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:46.939 Alexis Brown: Species in here, and I've been talking about. 631 01:12:46.940 --> 01:12:47.299 Shalese Heard: How are you? 632 01:12:47.300 --> 01:12:51.880 Alexis Brown: Years, and they keep saying, No, no, I said, y'all want me to say something really rude. 633 01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:52.490 Shalese Heard: Exactly. 634 01:12:52.490 --> 01:12:53.030 Alexis Brown: Not that. 635 01:12:53.030 --> 01:12:54.440 Jaz Brown they/them: They can fire you. 636 01:12:54.440 --> 01:12:57.819 Alexis Brown: Whoa! They're not gonna fire me. Yeah. 637 01:12:57.820 --> 01:12:59.599 Shalese Heard: Feel entitled and honestly. 638 01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:00.529 Jaz Brown they/them: If you quit. 639 01:13:00.710 --> 01:13:01.300 Shalese Heard: It could be. 640 01:13:01.300 --> 01:13:01.630 Alexis Brown: Make. 641 01:13:01.630 --> 01:13:02.220 Shalese Heard: Entertainment. 642 01:13:02.220 --> 01:13:12.299 Alexis Brown: Listen. I don't have nothing better to do with my time than to be here and let you know how much I appreciate this employment. You know. 643 01:13:12.510 --> 01:13:20.809 Shalese Heard: It strikes me as you know them being miserable at the job themselves, and so they think that they can prey on someone for their own source of sick entertainment. 644 01:13:21.120 --> 01:13:21.840 Jaz Brown they/them: And we're a target. 645 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:24.250 Alexis Brown: Was harassing me, didn't even need a job. 646 01:13:24.590 --> 01:13:25.230 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Wow! 647 01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:30.840 Alexis Brown: There are people who come to work because they don't have anything to do at home. 648 01:13:30.950 --> 01:13:32.769 Alexis Brown: and they harass people. 649 01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:34.790 Shalese Heard: That don't make no type of sense. 650 01:13:34.790 --> 01:13:35.840 Alexis Brown: They give them, they give. 651 01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:36.209 Jaz Brown they/them: Don't worry. 652 01:13:36.210 --> 01:13:39.829 Alexis Brown: Emotions because they're able to keep people in line 653 01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:56.310 Alexis Brown: because people don't want to be. And now you've got a lot of immigrants working in there, so they're easier to keep in line. But the the immigrants also have a culture to maintain and keep themselves entertained to, whereas the black folks still can't even huddle in groups of 3 or more. 654 01:13:58.570 --> 01:13:59.700 Shalese Heard: Exactly like it's. 655 01:13:59.700 --> 01:14:01.089 Alexis Brown: 2024. 656 01:14:01.090 --> 01:14:02.480 Shalese Heard: It's toxic. 657 01:14:02.480 --> 01:14:05.334 Alexis Brown: It's so, it's so hurtful and 658 01:14:06.100 --> 01:14:07.410 Alexis Brown: But but 659 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:16.040 Alexis Brown: to still hold so much gratitude, because without this company, you know, our family has thrived 660 01:14:16.210 --> 01:14:18.189 Alexis Brown: here because of this company. 661 01:14:18.580 --> 01:14:18.990 Shalese Heard: Go ahead! 662 01:14:18.990 --> 01:14:26.839 Alexis Brown: It goes back and forth, and it's like, how come we can't just have an honest conversation about things that could work that wouldn't cost you a lot of money. 663 01:14:26.950 --> 01:14:43.410 Alexis Brown: I come from. My mom always celebrates me because she says you do so much with so little, and you really don't need a lot to do a lot. And we, as black people, know that better than anybody. You got this 1 million dollar company. And you you worry about lawsuits. We can fix that. 664 01:14:44.610 --> 01:14:45.455 Shalese Heard: Right. 665 01:14:48.530 --> 01:14:50.110 Alexis Brown: We can be nice 666 01:14:50.140 --> 01:15:16.719 Alexis Brown: like. I don't understand why we can't just be nice to each other. And I'm looking forward to this next generation of children that are coming up. Well, a lot of them that are coming up because they just ain't dealing with it. They have much better interest than to be upset by the way somebody looks or acts, or thinks they're gonna want what they want, and they're gonna want it at a very high rate of speed, and I can't wait to get behind them, and just finally catch the wave of some honest people. 667 01:15:18.330 --> 01:15:19.650 Brittany Granville: Oh, let's hope so. 668 01:15:21.030 --> 01:15:22.080 Shalese Heard: Hallelujah. 669 01:15:24.203 --> 01:15:27.659 Brittany Granville: Now do you want to come back? 670 01:15:32.150 --> 01:15:33.610 Brittany Granville: That? Oh, there she is! 671 01:15:33.610 --> 01:15:34.105 Bev Harp: Hello! 672 01:15:36.990 --> 01:15:44.019 Brittany Granville: Alright that was a lot of our questions. But does anyone have a question for the panelists? 673 01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:47.209 Brittany Granville: you can ask individually or as a whole. 674 01:15:48.650 --> 01:15:50.380 Brittany Granville: we have any questions or. 675 01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:57.448 Bev Harp: We don't have any questions. Oh, I've got we. One just came up. 676 01:15:57.850 --> 01:16:03.780 Bev Harp: I'm close to a young adult who is finishing college soon, and is experiencing a lot of the things you all have mentioned. 677 01:16:04.030 --> 01:16:09.239 Bev Harp: neurodivergent gender confusion, self-loathing, isolation, and so on. 678 01:16:09.530 --> 01:16:10.930 Bev Harp: And it's really struggling. 679 01:16:11.360 --> 01:16:17.109 Bev Harp: Do you have suggestions for ways they can find support, informal support, or formal support. 680 01:16:17.610 --> 01:16:37.439 Jaz Brown they/them: I can say that if you are finishing college and you consider yourself an academic, there is a discord group called the Disabled Academic collective, where you can reach quite literally hundreds of people from all across the world who have different disabilities, who either are in school professors 681 01:16:37.440 --> 01:17:02.520 Jaz Brown they/them: or consider themselves independent scholars like I do, and you can ask a lot of questions about like either vent your frustrations, or like how to get certain accommodations, or how to get published highly highly recommend it. You just Google disabled, academic, collective discord, and the link will pop up and somebody will send you an invite and highly recommend. It's a i've gotten a lot of like emotional support from people when things were really hard. 682 01:17:04.600 --> 01:17:06.617 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And for me. 683 01:17:07.390 --> 01:17:11.520 Toni Cheeks (she/her): this is one of the reasons why I wanted to have my own practice. 684 01:17:11.980 --> 01:17:17.589 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Because I am going to be starting groups in January and 2025 685 01:17:17.630 --> 01:17:31.960 Toni Cheeks (she/her): support groups and groups for caregivers to help them understand how to truly support their neurodivergent child as well as the neurodivergent individual. How to really kind of understand your brain. 686 01:17:32.150 --> 01:17:44.850 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Because we are not a monolith. We are all different, and we all experience things in a different way, and I think that's 1 of the myths in society that oh, you're autistic. You have to be like this, and that's just so. 687 01:17:44.900 --> 01:18:02.140 Toni Cheeks (she/her): not the truth, and I think that that prevents people from really understanding their individual brain and and what they need as an individual to really function. Well, so that's 1 of my goals as a therapist is to really kind of help. 688 01:18:02.230 --> 01:18:15.600 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Just pour into them. Pour into the community, too, like, I said before, Ableism is something that we don't talk about, and I want to bring light to that more into our community, especially into the black community, because we still struggling. 689 01:18:16.230 --> 01:18:21.879 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I have family members that's just like, Oh, because my son is autistic, too. Just let him go outside and play. 690 01:18:21.970 --> 01:18:30.130 Toni Cheeks (she/her): It's a little bit more than that. But you know, getting into sports is not gonna help. So really kind of educating 691 01:18:30.190 --> 01:18:35.320 Toni Cheeks (she/her): the community on what it is and what it's not, so that we truly can help 692 01:18:35.370 --> 01:18:39.009 Toni Cheeks (she/her): give people what they need to to be successful in life. 693 01:18:41.750 --> 01:18:47.349 Bev Harp: Thank you. We have one more comment in the in here, and also another question. 694 01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:51.939 Bev Harp: So I'm going to read the comment first.st It's interesting. How many people assume 695 01:18:51.980 --> 01:18:53.100 Bev Harp: the mask 696 01:18:53.460 --> 01:18:59.590 Bev Harp: or the overly on proactively friendly state is the real or correct version of a person. 697 01:18:59.930 --> 01:19:01.230 Bev Harp: and then they think 698 01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:15.660 Bev Harp: they are seeing the off which might be aggressive, problematic, wrong version of a person whenever their natural default expressions or mannerisms show up. I appreciate that you all point out that people seem to be entitled to that 699 01:19:16.490 --> 01:19:19.600 Bev Harp: proactively happy presenting side of people. 700 01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:26.309 Bev Harp: No question here just wanted to say, I appreciate this conversation and the things you all have been pointing out. Thank you. 701 01:19:28.020 --> 01:19:41.179 Bev Harp: And then we have a question, can we get the information for Tony's support groups as well as any other socials or ways to keep up with the work of any of the panelists here willing to share in the chat, or as a follow up email. 702 01:19:41.550 --> 01:19:51.920 Bev Harp: So people want to know more from you, and I don't blame them. So if you have other, I put some links up at the beginning for the websites and social media that 703 01:19:52.020 --> 01:19:59.979 Bev Harp: that I had for you at fault. But if you'd like to put emails or anything in the chat for people to reach out to you or 704 01:20:00.050 --> 01:20:01.170 Bev Harp: talk about. 705 01:20:01.200 --> 01:20:03.199 Bev Harp: Perhaps the the support group. 706 01:20:03.570 --> 01:20:04.910 Brittany Granville: Is there something about? 707 01:20:05.010 --> 01:20:08.240 Brittany Granville: Is the group that jazz talked about in the links. 708 01:20:08.942 --> 01:20:16.290 Jaz Brown they/them: I just sent Bev. A. DM. With a link so that she could post it in the everyone chat because I don't have access to that. 709 01:20:16.290 --> 01:20:17.650 Bev Harp: Okay, great. I'll do that. 710 01:20:18.180 --> 01:20:29.319 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And I'm in the process of updating all of this on my website, and I'll include a form that you can fill out expressing your interest to join the support groups as well. So you can. You can 711 01:20:30.321 --> 01:20:37.499 Toni Cheeks (she/her): follow me on my hit me up on my website tsncounseling.com, and that should be in the chat too. 712 01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:41.209 Brittany Granville: Alright. We'll emails. We'll email those to everyone afterward. 713 01:20:41.580 --> 01:20:54.700 Bev Harp: Thank you another question. Thank you all for sharing for those on the panel with children and juggling additional things, such as work or school. What advice would you give to another neurodivergent mother when it comes to avoiding burnout. 714 01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:56.478 Brittany Granville: I think that's just Sony, isn't it? 715 01:20:57.760 --> 01:20:58.749 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Take care of yourself. 716 01:21:00.130 --> 01:21:03.079 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Take care of yourself because it it is very 717 01:21:04.280 --> 01:21:12.196 Toni Cheeks (she/her): like I said I thought I was doing good before I had kids. But then, when I threw kids in the mix, it just threw it all out the window. 718 01:21:12.510 --> 01:21:21.759 Toni Cheeks (she/her): but yeah, taking the time to really just take care of yourself. And that's why I feel like these support groups. And things are so important because you need to be around people that get you 719 01:21:21.770 --> 01:21:24.920 Toni Cheeks (she/her): again to understand like, Hey. 720 01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:47.160 Toni Cheeks (she/her): I've experienced that, or my child tried to lope. Get out the door the other day, or you know, and that stuff is scary, and so it has its own level of anxiety and trauma, and all of that wrapped up to it so definitely. Just take, find out what you need to do to fill up your cup like like Stick said, and 721 01:21:47.250 --> 01:21:48.899 Toni Cheeks (she/her): try to make time for that. 722 01:21:51.510 --> 01:22:02.629 Shalese Heard: And I would also add to that, join as many follow as many adult autistic adults as you can listen to what they say, neurodivergent adults, because 723 01:22:02.890 --> 01:22:15.849 Shalese Heard: they can give you some insight as to what may or may not work. As far as you know, parenting, and as far as what they have to look forward to. And what's what they're up against in this society being autistic and neurodivergent. 724 01:22:17.210 --> 01:22:17.870 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Hmm. 725 01:22:26.070 --> 01:22:34.410 Bev Harp: For someone who did not get the links at the beginning might have come out a little bit late. I'm going to add those back here 726 01:22:35.770 --> 01:22:48.459 Bev Harp: in the chat. And while you look at this last question, I'm curious what role gender socialization plays in masking, and how autism unfolds differently. 727 01:22:48.480 --> 01:22:50.480 Bev Harp: depending on that socialization. 728 01:22:50.500 --> 01:22:54.180 Bev Harp: regardless of the person's actual gender identity. 729 01:22:55.080 --> 01:22:55.660 Brittany Granville: Hmm. 730 01:22:56.250 --> 01:22:59.110 Alexis Brown: Can I? Can I say something about that. 731 01:22:59.110 --> 01:23:00.130 Bev Harp: I think so. 732 01:23:00.130 --> 01:23:00.600 Brittany Granville: Yeah. 733 01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:27.519 Alexis Brown: So, being 6 foot tall, so hard to find clothes that fit. And so, being like very self-conscious, and I got knobby knees. I'm all skinny, and it's just awkward, right? And so I started playing basketball, getting my confidence up, and it was so acceptable to wear sweatpants, and I was so comfortable, and they fit, and I fell in love with men's clothing, and not just that. But I knew that 734 01:23:27.942 --> 01:23:31.739 Alexis Brown: I didn't have the ability. I was highly agreeable. 735 01:23:31.970 --> 01:23:46.972 Alexis Brown: and so it was like, I kind of looked at it like a layer of protection for me. I was brave enough to go to New York by myself, and just walk up and down the streets of Harlem because I felt comfortable in my baggy jeans and the sweat kind of keeps people at bay 736 01:23:47.240 --> 01:24:12.220 Alexis Brown: and it kind of carried on with me. And now I noticed like later I said, Oh, I think I'm going to turn into a lady again like this. Right? It's like I don't know why, but I mean because I will go back and forth. I had 2 closets for so long, and every time I try to get rid of one closet the other closet like No, keep me, you know. And then so I moved to Florida, and it was like I finally got rid of all of my feminine clothing. And it was beautiful 737 01:24:12.220 --> 01:24:16.819 Alexis Brown: beautiful to be in Florida, because, you know, I hadn't been where you could be so nude. 738 01:24:17.050 --> 01:24:44.650 Alexis Brown: and it was amazing that people weren't looking at me, you know, in Kentucky people were like judging your facial expressions, but in Florida nobody, even if you're on the beach they don't care, and I found that to be very freeing. So I think a lot of my personality and demeanor and character comes from interpreting my feelings in a way that is self-expressive, and I'm super grateful for all the people who have, like put their 739 01:24:44.830 --> 01:24:47.710 Alexis Brown: their personal lives on the line to 740 01:24:47.740 --> 01:24:56.709 Alexis Brown: make other people who are different feel comfortable in spaces. I'm definitely a huge person. I definitely benefit from a lot of 741 01:24:56.790 --> 01:25:06.520 Alexis Brown: humanitarian work that people have fought and died for, so to be able to wear men's clothes without getting harassed. I'm super super grateful for that. 742 01:25:07.770 --> 01:25:22.019 Jaz Brown they/them: Yeah, I can definitely relate to the agreeableness of some, you know, raised, you know, Afab person, I think a lot of, especially when it comes to like the late diagnosis of it all is that a lot of women are raised to be agreeable. 743 01:25:22.317 --> 01:25:37.799 Jaz Brown they/them: to be nice, and to do things, and to be giving right, and not to say that men aren't. But there's a particular kind of way that women are that make it to where I think we're a little bit more susceptible to, especially as autistic people forms of like emotional abuse. 744 01:25:38.166 --> 01:25:56.509 Jaz Brown they/them: As well as like bullying. It can be very difficult for us to not want to just give, give, give, give, give when it comes to gender and masking. I am one of the many autistic people that gender in the binary does not really make 745 01:25:56.510 --> 01:26:21.520 Jaz Brown they/them: sense to me. And so how that like presents with masking is, I have to make very conscious choices about my safety, about how I present depending on the room that I'm in, so that I don't have harm come to me now. This is the same for just a regular black woman. It's the same thing, but I have to actively hide parts of myself so that I can gain acceptance gain a respectability. 746 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:45.109 Jaz Brown they/them: and that is something that messes with my mental health immensely. And I think that when you're given very early on in society, a very set list of ways that you need to conform as a woman, and black women especially, do not have access to those ways to conform, and are often masculinized by society, that I think that as autistic people we tend to 747 01:26:45.190 --> 01:27:10.879 Jaz Brown they/them: when it comes to masking, we tend to, especially when you're a person of color mask more than I think the white people do and what I've seen from my white friends that are autistic people it's different. You don't. You can think. Oh, well, I need to make sure that I don't talk about trains in this conversation where I have to think. Well, I have to be. I have to come across friendly enough to white people so that the con conversation can continue. 748 01:27:11.090 --> 01:27:15.980 Jaz Brown they/them: let alone. Maybe they come across with good feelings at the end. So I do think that 749 01:27:16.430 --> 01:27:25.789 Jaz Brown they/them: you can't really take just gender and like, look at it. You have to look at it from all angles, because it just represents so differently in each individual autistic person. 750 01:27:25.790 --> 01:27:35.899 Shalese Heard: Yeah. And you know, growing up, it was instilled in me to be feminine to, you know. Meet all the standards of what a woman should be, you know, coming up and 751 01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:40.559 Shalese Heard: being autistic, especially being diagnosed as classically autistic. I tended to have 752 01:27:40.630 --> 01:28:05.769 Shalese Heard: displays and symptoms that weren't feminine like I was very blunt, and that's known as a very masculine treat. I was very much like the way I think the way I would speak was very much strategic. And I guess logic based. And I didn't really show emotion because I didn't really. I don't know if I just wasn't in touch with my emotions, or I just simply did not know how to feel them or understand them. And so that 753 01:28:06.050 --> 01:28:17.700 Shalese Heard: created a conflict in people's minds about me, about me. Being a woman, they expect a certain emotional response out of me. But then I don't give that I come across, you know, like I'm acting masculine in that sense. 754 01:28:18.050 --> 01:28:20.600 Shalese Heard: And then there's the added stress of 755 01:28:20.620 --> 01:28:27.524 Shalese Heard: having to present as being friendly and empathetic around white people, because that's something that I struggle with a lot. 756 01:28:28.010 --> 01:28:31.459 Shalese Heard: I come across to a lot of people as cold-hearted and not empathetic. 757 01:28:31.900 --> 01:28:38.000 Shalese Heard: And white people have a problem with that. They think that it's aggression. They think that it's me, you know. 758 01:28:38.410 --> 01:28:58.980 Shalese Heard: being rebellious or whatnot. They don't understand that. And so I feel like, even as a black woman, and the stereotypes that come with being a black woman. We're stereotyped as being, you know, the nurturers, the churchgoers, the hyper religious care about everyone, Kumbaya type women right? And so they don't get that from me, and then they're shocked that they don't get that from me. 759 01:28:59.920 --> 01:29:04.549 Alexis Brown: You know, you're having a conversation that's not being had, because it's not understood. 760 01:29:04.550 --> 01:29:04.960 Shalese Heard: Yeah. 761 01:29:04.960 --> 01:29:12.169 Alexis Brown: And I keep trying to tell people we are speaking the same language, but we are not speaking the same language. 762 01:29:12.700 --> 01:29:24.440 Alexis Brown: and what you just said, I've been trying to articulate, because it's the only way to host these conversations, but the other party has to be willing, and they are not. 763 01:29:24.770 --> 01:29:36.129 Alexis Brown: and if they are willing, it's only based on policy, and that's where they go. If they don't like the conversation. And but when I try to use policy. I'm ignored. I asked for. 764 01:29:36.130 --> 01:29:37.830 Shalese Heard: Right. They think that's legit. 765 01:29:37.830 --> 01:29:50.670 Alexis Brown: And I don't get it, but I get cornered in a room by myself and harassed by management. But you know, when you want to talk to me about policy. You'll turn the computer around and set it in my face and not listen to what actually happened to me. 766 01:29:50.940 --> 01:29:59.449 Alexis Brown: And you know. I I went back and forth with I really don't understand what unions are. I'm not. Listen. Y'all. When I say I'm under a rock. I don't. I just be living. 767 01:29:59.700 --> 01:30:00.099 Shalese Heard: I don't know. 768 01:30:00.100 --> 01:30:16.510 Alexis Brown: I trust my intuition because I land in beautiful spaces like this, but I just don't like to engage, because at the core none of it makes sense to me. And so you know, I kind of look out for support. And in public spaces it's 769 01:30:16.550 --> 01:30:24.360 Alexis Brown: it's non-existent, almost. I've been throwing some life jackets that came out of nowhere is like the hunger games like thrill. 770 01:30:25.120 --> 01:30:25.630 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Oh! 771 01:30:26.230 --> 01:30:33.036 Alexis Brown: So again, I'm just grateful for everybody that came to listen. I'm thankful to be hosted on this platform with all these amazing brains. 772 01:30:33.320 --> 01:30:33.840 Jaz Brown they/them: Same. 773 01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:36.240 Alexis Brown: This has been very healing. I'm super grateful. 774 01:30:36.690 --> 01:30:39.150 Toni Cheeks (she/her): And we got to get together. Y'all real. Yeah. 775 01:30:39.501 --> 01:30:41.259 Shalese Heard: We gotta get together. Y'all. 776 01:30:41.890 --> 01:30:44.769 Bev Harp: Thank you all so much. This this has been 777 01:30:45.170 --> 01:31:02.140 Bev Harp: beyond my expectations. I've just loved loved it, and I hate that it has to end. I think most of us could sit here and listen to you for another hour, but I've learned a lot and laughed a lot, and it's just been really great to hear some honest conversation. So thank you a lot. 778 01:31:02.200 --> 01:31:07.030 Bev Harp: And hopefully, people will reach out to our our panelists. If you have more questions. 779 01:31:07.030 --> 01:31:08.680 Shalese Heard: Yeah, thank, you. 780 01:31:08.680 --> 01:31:09.789 Toni Cheeks (she/her): So much for hosting this. 781 01:31:09.790 --> 01:31:11.980 Shalese Heard: Thanks for having me here. Thanks, thank you. 782 01:31:11.980 --> 01:31:12.470 Jaz Brown they/them: Thank you. 783 01:31:12.470 --> 01:31:13.610 Bev Harp: Thanks for being here. Everybody. 784 01:31:13.610 --> 01:31:14.499 Brittany Granville: Could do anything else. 785 01:31:14.500 --> 01:31:15.385 Shalese Heard: It was fun. 786 01:31:16.420 --> 01:31:17.850 Brittany Granville: Have a good day. You, too. 787 01:31:17.850 --> 01:31:18.690 Shalese Heard: Thank you. Thank you. 788 01:31:19.680 --> 01:31:22.330 Alexis Brown: Brittany. Thank you for letting Unicorn speak. Thank you. 789 01:31:22.330 --> 01:31:23.949 Jaz Brown they/them: Yes, yes, you may. 790 01:31:23.950 --> 01:31:25.862 Shalese Heard: Unicorns, black unicorns. 791 01:31:26.500 --> 01:31:27.219 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Go ahead. 792 01:31:27.730 --> 01:31:28.443 Toni Cheeks (she/her): Bye, guys. 793 01:31:29.050 --> 01:31:29.760 Bev Harp: Bye.